The War on Anything That Moves

[Kinetic]

[size=1][color=royalblue]
I wanna make a comment...


I don't see why you dislike Bush and Texas >lives in Texas, but hates cowboys<
Anyway, you said we need to get over 9/11, it's not like we're milking that for all it's worth, I barely meet anyone that talks about that.

As for bush, I don't think he is the greatest president, not nearly, but he has stood his ground and done good for the country.

As for America, we are not great, our economy sucks (trust me), we have an overwhelming crime factor, but when the smaller countries are in trouble against terrorism, or military threat, we arrive to defend them, and they do the same for us. I don't see why you hate America.
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[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DBZChikaGhan [/i]
[B]
[COLOR=purpleWhile I feel all of these things, I also feel that America is one of the best places on Earth. Note I didn't say THE best. America has it's problems, but please don't act like it is the one. Not to generalize, but it seems that a lot of the griping is coming from Australians. I'm not pushing the pin on Australia and saying only Australian's dislike America, but Australia isn't perfect either. Neither is anywhere else on this planet.

[/COLOR] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]That's true, nowhere is perfect.

I don't think that Australians are really the ones complaining here though.

Cloricus is Australian (I think)...but most of his points so far are pretty invalid. And I don't know where his chip on the shoulder comes from.

Australia and America are probably the closest of international allies. And the reason for that is because both countries have very similar ideals.

I certainly don't hate America at all -- I think America is a great country and there are many things that I love about it.

I'm just saying that in general, Americans wear rose coloured glasses when it comes to their own country. But I think you yourself pretty much outlined that as well; so I think we agree on that point.

For me personally, there is nowhere on Earth I'd rather live than here. This place is a paradise...everyone who visits says the same.

But of course, this country isn't perfect -- unlike the USA, we haven't completely reconciled with our aboriginal community. And that is something which would seem to contradict Australia's core values. It still mystifies me as to why we are so behind in that area.

But that is one of our few faults. Still, it's something that we must look at and accept.

I think basically, we all have to realize that we're sharing the planet...and we have to be sensitive to other people's needs. If that were being done a little more, then I think people would be less critical of the US and others across the board.[/color]

[Megabakin]

Beleive it or not, the taste of revenge is too sweet for ANY country to diet from. I do admit America may have contributed to many incidents and the 9/11 attack. But, I have trouble beleiving that all this is happening just because of our government. The only reason America even looked at Arab countires is for their oil. The "war on terrorism" is merely an excuse to steal more oil and prove to the other countries their power. Iam an American, but Iam not to blame for this. Do not blame the people of America for what the government does. Basically, I say that America is screwed its game over. Weve gotten ourselves in a deep hole and cant get out. Almost every country in the world harbors some form of terrorism, so by declairing war on terrorism and against countries that harbor terrorism, weve created something of a world war. As for bioterrorism, well, its gonna get worse. A group of Australian (sp?) researchers accidentaly created a new strain of mousepox. Though not affective to humans, its has possibilities. They inserted the interleukin-4 gene into mousepox, in a long researched attempt to cure it. Instead of curing it though, it reversed and caused the complete destruction of the immune system of the mouse it was used on. Scientists are afraid that if this gene is inserted into the smallpox virus, it might have the same affect. And virus/gene therapy is pretty easy if you have the right tools. As a last resort Bush is gonna stop the war due to money costs and fear of some kind of WW3 and lay back. G2G, post more later.

[Ravenstorture]

[color=darkred]If anyone if feeling any resentment over this thread, I would just like to lift your spirits with this piece of relatively good news.

I have recently performed a Persuasive Oral in my english class, and the topic I choce was "Australia - The Fifty First State of America."
My good friend Mark chose the topic of "America - the Dictatorship" (or something alsong those lines.) I guess we chose the topics because it was easy getting info for them (thanks to 9/110 and that it was something we felt passionate about (that is why I started this thread).
I printed out this thread and checked up on it daily, read it and read it and used pasrts of it as evidence in my speech. Bad move - I only have your word on whether or not it was correct. but I took your words for it and remembered the golden rule for persuasive speaking - they will never remember what you say, they will only remember how you made them feel. So, the evidence held up and I delivered it very well - and I got an A1+, sounds good I know but the marking system is A5 the highest to A1, B5 - B1 etc. Still pretty good for an Advanced English assignment. More good news - Mark got an A3 - the highest mark in the class. We could never have done it without you guys. Thanks.

And here's some more good news - I just baked a cheesecake!!!! :D

So thank you everyone who posted in this thread, I hope the following conversation is as interesting as the last. Whatever that's meant to mean, I really don't know.....
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[liamc2]

*cough*

bleh. .it just goes to show that people will always go for something romantisised or whatever. .my internal thesaurus is offline. .:drunk:

damn Mar Bar. .bet you he'll get all the girls too. .

_____

FYI. .your intrepid hero here got a C3. . . .
*retreats into the shadows*

damn my shyness. .><

I am soooooooo not a public speaker. .I can write but I cant speak. .*rambles on like this for a few hours*

[James]

[color=coral]The fifty first state of America?

That sounds like another example of American ignorance toward other countries. :rolleyes:[/color]

[The Harlequin]

[quote] Cloricus is Australian (I think)...but most of his points so far are pretty invalid. And I don't know where his chip on the shoulder comes from.
[/quote]

He is. I know him. The chip on his shoulder comes from the fact that most people he knows think he's an idiot. And a certain natural arrogance.

[quote]The fifty first state of America?

That sounds like another example of American ignorance toward other countries.[/quote]

You think that's bad? One quote from an average, well-educated American, was "You're from Australia huh? God, you speak pretty good English.". As for the fifty first state idea, personally I'd like to know why they'd want us as a state, considering that any of the Americans I have ever heard speaking, or spoken too, are comparitiely very poorly educated about Australia. Or is someone saying that Americans simply want more territory?

[Pressure]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B]

[color=royalblue]That's true, nowhere is perfect.

I don't think that Australians are really the ones complaining here though.

Cloricus is Australian (I think)...but most of his points so far are pretty invalid. And I don't know where his chip on the shoulder comes from.

Australia and America are probably the closest of international allies. And the reason for that is because both countries have very similar ideals.

I certainly don't hate America at all -- I think America is a great country and there are many things that I love about it.

I'm just saying that in general, Americans wear rose coloured glasses when it comes to their own country. But I think you yourself pretty much outlined that as well; so I think we agree on that point.

For me personally, there is nowhere on Earth I'd rather live than here. This place is a paradise...everyone who visits says the same.

But of course, this country isn't perfect -- unlike the USA, we haven't completely reconciled with our aboriginal community. And that is something which would seem to contradict Australia's core values. It still mystifies me as to why we are so behind in that area.

But that is one of our few faults. Still, it's something that we must look at and accept.

I think basically, we all have to realize that we're sharing the planet...and we have to be sensitive to other people's needs. If that were being done a little more, then I think people would be less critical of the US and others across the board.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=purple]It may not be Australians, I was overgeneralizing. I appologize.

You are completely right, America wears rose-colored, or even blood-red colored glasses. America preaches about it's highness, about helping other countries out, for their benefit. But James-san your right, we only help other countries if it benefits us, or one of our supplies is at risk.

This can be seen, again, in the Guru of Idiots, George Bush. While the rest of NATO signed the new bill regarding the Nueremberg Trials, Bush did not. Because he didn't want American soldiers to go on trial and he not have anything to do about it.

America is one of the more hipocrytical countries out there.

But it's still a great place.

America may only help other countries so we hide our back, i.e: WWII America gave 13 billion dollars to Europe, to rebuild themselves, [i]a bribe ensuring they didn't become communist[/i]. Bribery may be low, but at least the countries weren't communist. That did help in aiding and end to the war.

Personally I feel guilty that before this discussion, I was still a naieve little girl, in that, I beileved America could do no wrong, that we were the most powerful, righteous, good, best, most helpful, etc country in the world. That's how most of America feels.

And it's just not true.[/color]

[Guest cloricus]

All of my posts are invalid. Why else would I put them up?

Harlequin I am offended that you summed that up with "The chip on his shoulder comes from the fact that most people he knows think he's an idiot." And would ask you not to do it again.

But you are write about "And a certain natural arrogance." Except "natural" is not true, I have my reasons.

[Kent]

now i would say this is beyond reasonable debate.
obviously, some of the people here are as uneducated as claimed.
oil...
america doesnt get oil from afganastan.
afganastan doesnt even have oil.
why do you think 76 oil tried to make a pipe line across.
its cause all the oil is in other countries and they need a way to get it through afganastan.
i will not be taking part in this thread anymore,
there are too many here who think americans are ignorant, when really its all about individuals. this individual knows enough about the current events to know that most of what has been said in this thread is just not true.
i suggest all of you go to some sort of school and pay close attention.
deranged views that arent true will only carry you so far.
you people just need to get your sh!t together.

[Pressure]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]now i would say this is beyond reasonable debate.
obviously, some of the people here are as uneducated as claimed.
oil...
america doesnt get oil from afganastan.
afganastan doesnt even have oil.
why do you think 76 oil tried to make a pipe line across.
its cause all the oil is in other countries and they need a way to get it through afganastan.
i will not be taking part in this thread anymore,
there are too many here who think americans are ignorant, when really its all about individuals. this individual knows enough about the current events to know that most of what has been said in this thread is just not true.
i suggest all of you go to some sort of school and pay close attention.
deranged views that arent true will only carry you so far.
you people just need to get your sh!t together. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=purple]Your right, America does not get our oil supply from Afghanistan, but we do get our oil supply, or the majorit of it, from Middle Eastern countries, ones with alliances with Afg. If we wage war on Afg. then their allies will more likely than not, come to Afg.'s aid and cut us short of our oil supply, devestating America.

All individuals are ignorant, but this is about Americans, their conflicts, and Bush.

Your sarcastic and mocking views are not appreciated and not needed. [/color]

[Kent]

i say your wrong still.
if you keep with current events and im sure you all do; you would know that this exact senario has already played out and the only country that was willing to do what you say, stop selling, was iraq.
none of the other arab countries did a thing. they would rather be rich.
truth is, those countries only care about each other if their own temporary intrest can be satisfied.
they are the oppressive and wrong ones.
in the most recent time magizine, may 27, 2002. an articale called "charging rape, facing prison" by hannah block on page 20.
it tells the story of a pakistani woman who was raped, pressed charges only to have the hard line muslim gov. acquit the accused male and press charges on her for adultry.
shes in prison and her 2 sons and husband dont have her around.
you tell me what countries are messed up...
but before you knock on us, look at what the world really has going on in side it.
and im sorry i even came back; which i just may do to see what you all think.

[Guest cloricus]

Another invalid post from cloricus -

You say your not ignorant of other countries but you don't even spend the time to spell their countries name right or you abbreviate it. Yet you always write yours out in full.
One of the main reasons I am against America is they have no respect for the rest of the world in it?s achievements and often doesn?t help. I know that is a very big generalisation but in the most part it is true.

Prove me wrong, please. I would really like some reasons to like America.

[Roxie Faye]

WE DON'T HELP???!?!?! WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING?!?!?! We give out more aid than any otehr country in the world. Obviosly you haven't been reading this thread correctly becase I ahve stated that we have given 1 TRILLION(i believe) dollars in aid to afghanistan, and not just after 9/11, but before, as well. so please, do not tell me me don't give.

[Kent]

i am sorry if you were talking about me with the spelling thing.
afghanistan.
i am sorry about that, i just happen to know how to spell america and not afghanistan. i will continue working on the whole editing process.
more important though, its not a trillion dollars.
i know it was a ton of money and i know it was more than any other country. its not about who gave the most; its about the fact that we have done more good than bad.
watch the footage of the people cheering when noriega was removed from panama.
think about the people who lost a hand when stealing under taliban rule.
even if america was evil; it would still be the lesser of many.

[Pressure]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Another invalid post from cloricus -

You say your not ignorant of other countries but you don't even spend the time to spell their countries name right or you abbreviate it. Yet you always write yours out in full.
One of the main reasons I am against America is they have no respect for the rest of the world in it?s achievements and often doesn?t help. I know that is a very big generalisation but in the most part it is true.

Prove me wrong, please. I would really like some reasons to like America. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=purple]You have got to be kidding.. that is your returning argument? It's a pretty pathetic one. I spell America out bc I know how to spell it, I didn't grow up in Afghanistan, so I don't know if I was spelling it the right way or not, and besides, Afg. is a lot easier and takes less time to type.

Yes that is a huge, and incorrect, generalization. And no it isn't in the most part true. Why WOULD America care? Sure, America will pat other countries on the back and say "Good Job". So when was the last time you Aussies celebrated July 4th? July 4th is America's Independence Day, we celebrate it, other countries don't. Just like Libya doesn't celebrate July 4th, I doubt America nationally celebrates their special days.

Your arguments are weak and James was right, invalid.[/color]

[Kent]

well i do want to mention.
america does celebrate the holidays or special days if we can.
mostly cause we love to get off work.
but also because their are alot of people who still think about the people who have given their lives for this country.
of course, thats only people like me who are big history nuts.
others in my country, according to recent studies, seem to show a lack of historical knowledge and general "social studies".
those are my fav. kinds of classes.
liberal arts all the way.

[James]

[color=coral]I think this argument is kind of fizzling out...

I'm seeing a lot of silly stuff here too. I mean, I personally love America a lot...and I love my own country too. It's not an Australia vs America thing...or anything like that.

As long as we recognize that every country has its faults, then I think that's the most important thing. :)[/color]

[Kent]

once again i say james is right.
this is the second political thread that he has given a good ending note to.
lets keep it that way.
good job james.

[Guest cloricus]

I didn't grow up in America and I can spell it. I was just using that as a reference.

I really don't hate America.

We are you going over things that we have already been over.
I am no longer posting in this thread.

[Ravenstorture]

Well, I hate america but I hate just about everybody so it never was personal. I just hate all of humanity at the moment, and countries never meant anything to me anyway. Dividing lines, perhaps different cultures, that's all. We are all people, and few people accept that. We are all ANIMALS, and NOBODY accepts that! Why the hell do we place ourselves over other lifeforms? We are so damn arrogant.

And I am so damn angry. My cheesecake is burnt and it fell apart.

[Pressure]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]

We are you going over things that we have already been over.
I am no longer posting in this thread. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=purple]Doesn't look that way to me.

James is right, this thread is just repeating itself. There aren't any [i]intelligent[/i] arguments coming up.[/color]

[Quatre's_gurl]

ok. I am American and I admit, I don't like this country very much. In band I actually declared to my friend right before we played the national anthem that I cannot stand the arrogance and stupidity of this country. We think that if we go and shove our noses in everyone elses business we can right all the wrongs in this world. For the record, I believe that on September 11th, we got what we deserved. Thank you.

[Roxie Faye]

*Sigh* America. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. People yell at us for sticking our noses in others businesses, but if we didn't do anything, there'd be people saying we're spoiled brats because didn't do anything. ><
I do agree that we stick our noses in other countries businesses, but we're only trying to help. I don't belive that we are trying to right alll the wrongs in the world, just help out a little.
I do not believe that sept. 11th has anything to do with sticking our noses in other people's businesses. It's not our problem that Osama was pissed off. Now, if we were to go into afghanistan and blow up the palce, then I could see why he'd be angry.

[Pressure]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quatre's_gurl [/i]
[B] For the record, I believe that on September 11th, we got what we deserved. Thank you. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=purple]I think that's overdoing it. There isn't a coutnry on this Earth that deserves to have thousands of innocents slaughtered. The ones who deserve punishment, if this is your view, should be the political leaders that put America in these situations.[/color]