Anime Would you say Vegeta is a cheater and crybaby?

[hemmorhoid]

i think its not that bad
because whatever he does he never surpasses Son Goku
and therefore it doesnt really matter

[LittleFluteSan]

As mentioned before, the only time I can remember Vegeta being a "crybaby" was in that first Brolli movie... I mean, Picollo had to DRAG HIM BY THE HAIR, and insult his Saiyan heritage to get him to join the fight.

As for cheating, eh, it's iffy. I mean, for all intents and purposes, Vegeta should be dead. I don't think he was resurrected on Namek on purpose, it was just a byproduct of saving all the Namekians. So from that point on, Vegeta knew that he was always weaker, which is why he used outside stimuli to enhance his power. It's not as glamorous as powering up in battle for a purpose, but it IS means to and end.

[dennis]

Vegeta is no cheater,in fact he has a right for his claims that he is better than Goku,why? well heres the proof,did Goku beat him during the Saiyan Saga? no,in fact it was Gohan who defeated Vegeta.second,in his Majin Vegeta form,did Goku beat him? well,
technically yes,but Goku did not beat Vegeta's @#$,Goku won because Vegeta agreed to postpone the match because he will
fight Majin Buu.and third,who defeated Cell? it's him(no offense to Gohan fans here) who defeated Immortal Buu? who thought
of the idea of the Genki-Dama to destroy Kid Buu? it's Vegeta himself of course. cheater? well i don't think so. crybaby? no! i never saw Vegeta cry in the entire DBZ series.

[*-- RagnaroK--*]

crybaby? no! i never saw Vegeta cry in the entire DBZ series. [/B][/QUOTE]

Then where have you been? He definetly cries when hes dying in namek, I think he cries in the Buu saga, but this whole new crying in Brolly movie thing is new to me!

[Charles]

I really think everyone has to realize what a crybaby is. I picture a crybaby as someone who constantly whines to others about their own misfortune. Furthermore, a crybaby can be someone who bursts into uncontrollable sobs at the slightest hint of pain.

Now, think about things for a second. The DragonBallZ and GT series together span many years. Along that vast amount of fime, Vegeta has only cried like three or four times. Of those times he cried, he never lost control. At most, a few tears streamed down his cheek.

Furthermore, when was the last time you saw Vegeta run to Gokou crying because he was too weak to win a fight? No matter how much the odds are against him, Vegeta would take up a fight with anyone. Trunks constantly told him that the Androids were stronger than he was. Did Vegeta cry and wait for Gokou to recover? Nope, he went right after those suckers. That's just one example of many. I could throw out names like Cell, Buu, Furiza or what have you.

Lastly, regarding this crying, most of the tears were either bitter or due to regret. Rarely did he cry due to a beating. I've seen Vegeta take a lot of punishment in the series without breaking a tear. I don't know if anyone has seen the fight in GT, where Gokou is down and out and Vegeta is fighting Ii Shenron, but it's brutal. Ii Shenron actually stabs Vegeta through the shoulder with one of his "spikes." Keep in mind that the spike is about as big as Vegeta's shoulder. Did Vegeta give up? Nope, he stood up again and would have fought if Gokou hadn't risen with the Genki Dama.

As for being a cheater...well, lemme pose a question. Who was it that used gravity training on the way to Namek to enhance their skills during the Furiza Saga? Why, I believe Son Gokou was the first to use that method. Interesting....

Plus, we can't forget that Kuririn and Gohan used the Elder Namek to power them up. Heck, Gohan even used Rou Dai Kaioshin to power him up much later in the series. I would say that singling out just one character is bogus.

[SSJ Pud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by *-- RagnaroK--* [/i]
[B]There is no way that he is a crybaby or cheater. He gets jealous easily but never is a crybaby. He cried in the freeza saga because he was brought back to those memories of whn he was a child and was overpowered by freeza, and when his father was killed at the hands of him. so its his pride that allows him to do such things. :cool: [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah i think he only cried in the freeza saga cause he knew he was gonna die and he did'nt think he would ever see any of them again. Therefore he figured he might as well let his pride go because he was a goner anyway. If i was gonna die i would probably not worry about my composure or if i was acting like a "baby" by crying.

[Guest Fly-T]

i dont think he cried b4 dien from buu i thought he just kept talkn and stuff.

well come to think he is a cheater
- used a Brute ray
- knocked the wind out of Goku when he said they would team up (buu saga)
and a crybaby
- he had what was comn
hes greedy for power and satisfy his pride

[The Vampire: Ed]

He's not really a cheater. The type of fighting they do, has absolutely [b]no rules[/b] what so ever! So what ever Vegita does that seems dirty, and underhanded is still not cheating. Now, if they made some sort of rules before each fight or if they were fighting in the World Martial Arts Tournament. Then it would be cheating, but neither ever happens.

[*-- RagnaroK--*]

For one CWB, you are wrong! In the freeza saga, Vegeta attempted to run away from him, shouting out in this words," No im not ready yet, I cant die now!", but Freeza teleported in front of him and forced him back.

And there have been many ways in which all the Z fighters have cheated, one example of Vegeta though is asking Krillin to blast him and making Dende revive him so he can become stronger than before. (remember? a sayain becomes stronger when revived from death!!)

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by *-- RagnaroK--* [/i]
[B]For one CWB, you are wrong! In the freeza saga, Vegeta attempted to run away from him, shouting out in this words," No im not ready yet, I cant die now!", but Freeza teleported in front of him and forced him back.

And there have been many ways in which all the Z fighters have cheated, one example of Vegeta though is asking Krillin to blast him and making Dende revive him so he can become stronger than before. (remember? a sayain becomes stronger when revived from death!!)[/B][/QUOTE][color=indigo]First off, if you were about to be killed and there was nothing you could do about it, you would try to run off too, scared out of your mind. That doesn't make you a crybaby though. That is simply fear of the inevitable. If Vegeta was a crybaby, like Crazy White Boy said, he would cry at every little thing. Like when Gokou became ill in the android saga, he would have cried at that. Being threatened would make him cry, but we all know that is not how it is.

And asking Krillen do blast him so he can be revived is strategy, not cheating. You know you would have done it too if you were in a similar situation.[/color]

[*-- RagnaroK--*]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i]
[B][color=indigo]First off, if you were about to be killed and there was nothing you could do about it, you would try to run off too, scared out of your mind. That doesn't make you a crybaby though. That is simply fear of the inevitable. If Vegeta was a crybaby, like Crazy White Boy said, he would cry at every little thing. Like when Gokou became ill in the android saga, he would have cried at that. Being threatened would make him cry, but we all know that is not how it is.

And asking Krillen do blast him so he can be revived is strategy, not cheating. You know you would have done it too if you were in a similar situation.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

OK my dear, dear friend, this thread just keeps on comin' back at me. YES, I agree, i would run sh*t scared if i was about to die, BUT IT WAS HIS PRIDE MAN, HE STRONGLY DAMAGED IT!!! WHAT WOULD HIS FATHER SAY?!! A sayin must stay loyal to his pride, till death do them apart, but running away is cowardly, especially for a man like vegeta.

And no, i would not ask someone to shoot an energy beam right through me, because it is cheating........ and it hurts. lol!

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by *-- RagnaroK--* [/i]
[B]OK my dear, dear friend, this thread just keeps on comin' back at me. YES, I agree, i would run sh*t scared if i was about to die, BUT IT WAS HIS PRIDE MAN, HE STRONGLY DAMAGED IT!!! WHAT WOULD HIS FATHER SAY?!! A sayin must stay loyal to his pride, till death do them apart, but running away is cowardly, especially for a man like vegeta.

And no, i would not ask someone to shoot an energy beam right through me, because it is cheating........ and it hurts. lol![/B][/QUOTE][color=indigo]The difference between Vegeta and his father is that King Vegeta didn't know what Furiza was capable of, and Vegeta did. So Vegeta had a reason to be scared and try to avoid death. Yes it is cowardly to run away, but that still doesn't make him a crybaby :p

And no that still was not cheating, lol. It may hurt a lot, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Cheating would be making himself incredibly stronger and then doing something to make Furiza incredibly weak, and then ganging up on him :p[/color]

[Chaos]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]I really think everyone has to realize what a crybaby is. I picture a crybaby as someone who constantly whines to others about their own misfortune. Furthermore, a crybaby can be someone who bursts into uncontrollable sobs at the slightest hint of pain.

Now, think about things for a second. The DragonBallZ and GT series together span many years. Along that vast amount of fime, Vegeta has only cried like three or four times. Of those times he cried, he never lost control. At most, a few tears streamed down his cheek.

Furthermore, when was the last time you saw Vegeta run to Gokou crying because he was too weak to win a fight? No matter how much the odds are against him, Vegeta would take up a fight with anyone. Trunks constantly told him that the Androids were stronger than he was. Did Vegeta cry and wait for Gokou to recover? Nope, he went right after those suckers. That's just one example of many. I could throw out names like Cell, Buu, Furiza or what have you.

Lastly, regarding this crying, most of the tears were either bitter or due to regret. Rarely did he cry due to a beating. I've seen Vegeta take a lot of punishment in the series without breaking a tear. I don't know if anyone has seen the fight in GT, where Gokou is down and out and Vegeta is fighting Ii Shenron, but it's brutal. Ii Shenron actually stabs Vegeta through the shoulder with one of his "spikes." Keep in mind that the spike is about as big as Vegeta's shoulder. Did Vegeta give up? Nope, he stood up again and would have fought if Gokou hadn't risen with the Genki Dama.

As for being a cheater...well, lemme pose a question. Who was it that used gravity training on the way to Namek to enhance their skills during the Furiza Saga? Why, I believe Son Gokou was the first to use that method. Interesting....

Plus, we can't forget that Kuririn and Gohan used the Elder Namek to power them up. Heck, Gohan even used Rou Dai Kaioshin to power him up much later in the series. I would say that singling out just one character is bogus. [/B][/QUOTE]


Now why did you go and point out everything that I was gonna say? ;P



[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i]
[B][color=indigo]The difference between Vegeta and his father is that King Vegeta didn't know what Furiza was capable of, and Vegeta did. So Vegeta had a reason to be scared and try to avoid death. Yes it is cowardly to run away, but that still doesn't make him a crybaby :p[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]


"He who fights and runs away, lives to see another day", correct?


As for the thing about Vegeta could've prevented Bulma from blasting him with the Brute Ray, that is false. To the best of my memory, both Bulma and Vegeta were being controlled by Bebi. By the time Vegeta had gained the power of SSJ4, Bebi had been destroyed..........

Booyaka..

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by *-- RagnaroK--* [/i]
[B]For one CWB, you are wrong! In the freeza saga, Vegeta attempted to run away from him, shouting out in this words," No im not ready yet, I cant die now!", but Freeza teleported in front of him and forced him back.[/B][/QUOTE]

lol, Well PiroMunkie basically did a good job of countering what you said, but remember if you still put Vegeta in the category of coward just because of this, you will have to put most of the Z Fighters in as well.

I mean, Piccolo runs from Buu, Yamucha and Kuririn refused to fight Buu again after King Kai preserved their bodies, Trunks didn't want to fight the androids, and Gokou quit his fight with Cell, because he knew he couldn't win. Isn't that basically what Vegeta did against Furiza? The only difference is that Vegeta didn't have a stronger warrior to take up the fight for him at the time.

I could sit here and name a bunch of times when the Z Fighters didn't fight because they couldn't win, but I think everything's been said that's needed to be said by myself, Piro and Neil, regarding your argument. :p

It's nice to see that you picked up on that and challenged what I said though. Nice try! :toothy:

[The Vampire: Ed]

Well, I wouldn't suggest anyone to challenge Crazy White Boy's knowledge. He seems to have just about everything narrowed down. Not much else I can do except to quote myself about Vegeta, or rather anyone else who fights out side of tournaments.

[quote][i]Originally posted by me[/i]
[b]He's not really a cheater. The type of fighting they do, has absolutely no rules what so ever! So what ever Vegeta does that seems dirty, and underhanded is still not cheating. Now, if they made some sort of rules before each fight or if they were fighting in the World Martial Arts Tournament. Then it would be cheating, but neither ever happens.[/b][/quote]

Now, as I've said there are no rules in the type of fighting they do. You never see them set any specific rules either, other then the ones in the Cell games. Which were only "Fall out of the ring you lose. Die, you lose." etc. There can be no actual cheating in a ruleless match! So no one actually cheated. Maybe it was dirty, and underhanded stuff. But not actual cheating.

[Vegitto4]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]

As far as Cheating goes... It's not his fault Babidi took over him and made him Majin and gave him this excess power. [/B][/QUOTE]

I am sure somebody poineted this out, but it is his fault. he wanted it to happen. He made sure Dabura could tell that he" needed the evil in his heart released"

[Guest Chris]

first of all, most of the time the z fighters fight , they fight for their lives. have you ever fought for your life? when you fight for your life you do whatever it takes, cheating doesn't mater. nothing maters but leaving the fight alive.

secondly, some one said that goku may have technicaly won the battle against majin vegeta but he didn't beat him up. i just want to say that he could have easily killed him because he had the ability to go ssj3 at the time, he just chose not to.

[*-- RagnaroK--*]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]
I mean, Piccolo runs from Buu, Yamucha and Kuririn refused to fight Buu again after King Kai preserved their bodies, Trunks didn't want to fight the androids, and Gokou quit his fight with Cell, because he knew he couldn't win. Isn't that basically what Vegeta did against Furiza? The only difference is that Vegeta didn't have a stronger warrior to take up the fight for him at the time.

It's nice to see that you picked up on that and challenged what I said though. Nice try! :toothy: [/B][/QUOTE]

The thread specifically is titled with the name "VEGETA", and not the "Z fighters", even though Goku surrendered against cell, where as vegeta RAN off, there is a very big difference between the two, and picollo ran away from buu (if your talking about the one im thinking about) because vegeta blew himself up (believe me, if he hadnt done that for trunks and bulma then that would be the icing on the cake for his cowardly acts, but it was for someone else so its ok), piccollo trunks and gotenjust didnt want to get caught up in the blast, what would you do if you were next to a bomb that was about to explode? RUN, (or try to defuse it).
Any more arguments?

Oh, and thanks for the compliment CWB!!

[anime_gal15]

How dare you discrase the name of a DBZ character! Just kidding. I don't even like Vageta. During the Buu saga, I must admit, Vageta was a little tricky during his battle with Goku. I think he should have just let it go. I mean, Goku was already dead, what was Vageta going to do to him? I mean honestly. LONG LIVE TRUNKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by *-- RagnaroK--* [/i]
[B]

The thread specifically is titled with the name "VEGETA", and not the "Z fighters", even though Goku surrendered against cell, where as vegeta RAN off, there is a very big difference between the two.[/Quote][/B]

Well, by singling out Vegeta and putting his character into question, it is assumable that he's being judged against the other characters. In fact, [I]because[/I] the other Z fighters aren't being taken into account, this topic is automatically declaring that the other characters don't need to be taken into consideration. If all of the other Z Warriors were crybabies, would a thread be created asking if Vegeta was a cheater or a crybaby? Probably not. Thus, it's appropriate to bring the others up.

Anyway, fine, you want to say that Gokou never ran away eh? Well, Vegeta, like Gokou, knew he wasn't as powerful as Cell, yet he stayed, fought and was a major factor in winning the battle. No cowardice there. Yeah, and like Vegeta would have ever asked Trunks to fight his battles for him.


[Quote][B]and picollo ran away from buu (if your talking about the one im thinking about) because vegeta blew himself up (believe me, if he hadnt done that for trunks and bulma then that would be the icing on the cake for his cowardly acts, but it was for someone else so its ok), piccollo trunks and gotenjust didnt want to get caught up in the blast, what would you do if you were next to a bomb that was about to explode? RUN, (or try to defuse it).
Any more arguments?[/B][/Quote]

I was actually talking about after the blast, when the boys were safe and Buu began to reform. Piccolo ran away because he [I]knew[/I] he couldn't beat Buu. Furthermore, he was definitely scared. I'm not saying he's a coward, because it was just an act of intelligence. I know this is only an anime, but it carries over a real human trait--self preservation. If someone knows they can't win, they'll run. That's what Vegeta attempted against Furiza [I]after[/I] fighting bravely--self preservation/survival . Anyway, would a crybaby ask someone to blast them and injure them severely just so they could become stonger. I don't think so.

Lol, anyway, you'll actually see Gokou actually beg Buu off when he gets back to Earth. Just wait until Gohan misses Gokou's throw (when he throws the earring).

You can't just dismiss what everyone else has done and single out a few instances that support your own argument. For the most part, Vegeta has rushed into battle because of pride. That's his character; proud to a fault. A coward can't be proud, the formula just doesn't mix. The notion that Vegeta is a cheater or a crybaby contradicts his character to the point that neither can be true.

[Quote][B]Oh, and thanks for the compliment CWB!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Hey no prob. I'm for a good discussion anyday. :toothy:

[Guest Chris]

you can use refrences to other characters to suport your facts. you have to. you need to see how others act. you can't call him a crybaby and no one else one when he acts like every one else. therefore you can refer to others.

[LittleFluteSan]

Someone mentioned something about Goku never beating Vegeta when he went Majin to increase his power...

True, Goku never did actually beat Vegeta, but the reality is that Goku was toying with Vegeta. He was INFINITLY stronger than Vegeta because he had the power to go SSJ3 all along. When Goku fought Yakon, Vegeta sensed that Goku could ascend, and had incredible power. He had no idea how deep that well went. So did he cheat to go 2, and beat Goku? Yes, but only because he knew Goku was so much stronger than what he was at the time. Would he have even TRIED to fight Goku if he knew about SSJ3? Who knows...

[*-- RagnaroK--*]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by LittleFluteSan [/i]
[B]
True, Goku never did actually beat Vegeta, but the reality is that Goku was toying with Vegeta. He was INFINITLY stronger than Vegeta because he had the power to go SSJ3 all along. When Goku fought Yakon, Vegeta sensed that Goku could ascend, and had incredible power. He had no idea how deep that well went. So did he cheat to go 2, and beat Goku? Yes, but only because he knew Goku was so much stronger than what he was at the time. Would he have even TRIED to fight Goku if he knew about SSJ3? Who knows... [/B][/QUOTE]

This is actually a good point. The most likely answer to it must be that goku didnt feel he needed to transform, (remember, it takes up energy, reducing his time on earth)

[Guest Chris]

what does taking up energy have to do with his time on earth?

[*-- RagnaroK--*]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ssj3 [/i]
[B]what does taking up energy have to do with his time on earth? [/B][/QUOTE]

In dragonball when you use up all your energy, you simply die, eg- when tien used that blast against nappa and then died. Goku had a 24 hour lifetime on earth, and by using up most of his energy, it sliced his life in half, leaving him less time on earth.