Anime Japanese and American versions - what's the real differance?

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rogue Shadows [/i]
[B]And we SHOULD be thanking the dubs. Without the dubs, then DB and DBZ wouldn't have been shown over in America, and therefore no one over here would realy care for it. So what if the origonal came first? Even though it did, if not for dubs, none of us would be here arguing over which is better, no?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Naw... I don't thank anyone that means nothing to me and just spawns people to come to this forum and ask stupid questions all the time. Not refering to you, just other people.

I don't watch anime anymore... reason for that? I'll just point to the insane amount of anime being dubbed and being ripped apart and shown to little sussy and billy, which is really just a totally new show because they changed so much. How would you like if someone took your favorite band or song and changed it's language and sound and then played it to another country or community that has never heard of it and then they like it so much they want more, and then all of the sudden, your favorite group is being marketed as something they aren't...

Anyway... I'm not bashing dubs to no extent. Believe me, you haven't seen anything if you think what I've said is bad... there's some people that will tear every little aspect of every dubbed anime show apart to show you what they have done when dubbing. I don't because I don't really care.... if people want to watch dubs, whatever, but don't come to this board or to me and tell me about "Hercule".... because I'll smack the sh*t out of you.... Hercule doesn't exist... Hercule IS NOT a character on DragonBall Z.... so why the hell do you people talk about him? Oh yeah, because you watch dubs.... my point exactly.

[Guest Chris]

first off, i think both subs and dubs are good. i would much prefer to watch the subs(for no spesific reson:angel: ) but i don't feel like reading all the time(yea, i'm that lazy).
btw, if you get the subs on dvd can you change the language? i heard some one say you could.
i say hercule because every one knows who he is. even subbies(or whatever you call them) know him by that.
and great speach gohan. i think it touched all our hearts(there goes the corny jokes that are not nessesary)

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ssj3 [/i]
[B]first off, i think both subs and dubs are good. i would much prefer to watch the subs(for no spesific reson:angel: ) but i don't feel like reading all the time(yea, i'm that lazy).
btw, if you get the subs on dvd can you change the language? i heard some one say you could.
i say hercule because every one knows who he is. even subbies(or whatever you call them) know him by that.
and great speach gohan. i think it touched all our hearts(there goes the corny jokes that are not nessesary) [/B][/QUOTE]

Watching subs would probably help you read and comprhend faster on other things as well.... but whatever.

Yes, you can change the language on DVDs that have te Japanese language original track. In that case, the subs are professionally done, so you don't see many mistakes like in fansubs.

Well if you say Hercule, then you need to start watching DragonBall Z... there's no character named Hercule in DragonBall Z... Everytime I read the word Hercule, the only word that pops in my head is "dubbie" and then I will most likely disregard any meaning that you may know something about DragonBall.

[Juu]

I'm definately a subbie. I hate censoring.... Just put it on adult swim! If the lil kids stay up and watch it, it's the parent's fault! Dub all they want and put that on toonami, and put the original on adult swim! But the dubbing in DB gets on my nerves the most.

[Falco]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by outlawstar_14 [/i]
[B]
That explains me too. An extremely well informed dubbie is better than, well.. a dubbie Most of my info comes from the net, most of it from here actually. I still really want to see them in their origional glory though. [/B][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=blue]I don't know about extremley but for the steryotype "dubbie", I think I know quite a bit. I have seen a few subs just not enough to get me off the title dubbie. But I am ok with that. Anyway, the only difference I have notice, is american name changes, such as The room of spirit and time, changing into the hyperbolic time chamber, and if I remember correctly, in the subs when Gohan was getting really mad and when ssj 2, they played a really long song, the american version just showed the bird flying for like 5 seconds and then stopped.
If that didn't make any sense then just ignore me.[/COLOR]
Edit: Juuthena, what you see on adult swin, aren't subs. Maybe you knew, it just didn't seem like it.

[LittleFluteSan]

I'm on the "either way" boat. I originally watched the Dubs, and watched them for about a year, and LOVED DBZ. The one day a friend of mine bought me one of the DVD's with the original dialogue/subtitled.

The original Japanese subs are better for a number of reasons:

.1) The dialogue is better. "You think you can beat me with that power? You must think you're a big shot" But, in japanese is "You have sullied the name of your people, and your death will be celebrated by the good of the universe." Now, that's not an exact quote, but you get the picture. The lines have more of a poetic noir-samuri-code of honor feel to them than the modernized english dialogue.

2) The voices are better. Freeza's english voice sucked. Vegeta's voice sucks (you don't need to sound like Wolverine to be a tough bad guy. That hoarse, stereotypical "bad guy" voice ruins the whole effect). Hercule's voice sucks. Most of them are alright, but the tones of the original Japanese actors... awesome. I have absolutely no idea what they're saying, but the voice effect is solid.

3) The editing and stuff. I guess this is everyone's big debate. I mean, the show was cool without the blood and guts and stuff, but I like seeing what gets cut. Editing shows is like tearing pages out of a book, you dont' get the whole effect of the story.

Why are the dubs good?

1) A language you can understand: I can't tell you how much MORE attention you can put into the art and animation of the battles and situations when you dont' have to be constantly looking down at the bottom to read what they're saying. You don't lose little bits of fights from reading subs.

2) American writers. FOr the most part, the american dub writers cheese it up with pop culture lexicon. But every now and again, the new writing gives some characters (in particular Vegeta and Android 16 some great lines). In Japanese, what Vegeta says is more ruthless and holds that noir-samuri movie feel, but what he says in English is just BAD ***. Anyone who's seen the fight with Pui Pui in both languages can attest to that.

And that's it... those are the only two good points I can see about the subs...

[Omar Harris]

Added effect? I really don't see any. I mean sure the blood, guts, sex or whatever makes the show more mature and give the show that extra shock value ("Can they do that in a cartoon. Cool") but when you really think about it the show is just about mindless violence either way it goes (not dissing it because then I wouldn't be here but that's the way it is).
I don't care if you make fun of me becaue I say Hercules instead of Mr. Satan. I just prefer to hear a language I understand than to have to read (taking my attention off what makes the show great anyways, the animation or did everyone forget about that part?) of learn a completely new language just to watch so many odd episodes. I know about the show, it's history and everything else. I just prefer to use the names I am accustomed to. And besides no one bringsthe originals here anyways so what's the point.
The show is not completely marketed towards kids. I've seen the "uncut" version of the Cooler movie and three episodes of the Majin Buu series and once again there is really no difference than what they do in the show on T.V. Most of you people underrate the dubs. It is not completely butchered as you say it is. They still showed Tien lose an arm, although with slight colorings so not to show the actual removal, they still showed Freiza skewered by Goku and even if youo couldn't see Trunks do it you could still hint at what he was doing with ease. We still saw Piccolo remove his own arm in his first fight with Cell. And we still see blood nowadays, not in puddles but its blood anyway who cares.
Either way it goes we still see Master Roshi oggle young women even if the magazines are swimsuit magazines and not pornos. What does it matter he's still a pervert. And we still see people get the s***blown out of them in either version, which is a lot that most network don't let slip. The storylines are still the same and even though the new dubbed voices aren't as good as the Canadian ones (I happened to like Vegeta's raspy original dub voice better, thank you), you still have to admit that the dub VA put a lot into it. Vegeta turning Majin brings a tear to my eye because its just that powerful a speech.
I wish you anime purist would just leave the dubbies alone. Even if we don't use the correct names or know abouot certain mature scenes it is not so highly censored as to be two different shows completely. I don't agree with censoring a work of art (if you can call DBZ that) but still leave us with what we are accustomed to. Mr. Satan being changed to Hercules is not such a big deal friggin' deal that you have to make a three page thread just to argue about it not being "the original thing". Wow they change his name, big friggin whoop. It's the same moronic character, either way it goes.
And not all the dubbed anime you see is butchered for kids. Gundam is dubbed and yet the dub is still violent and still has most of the philosophical themes revolving around war. If you watch the dub, the show is just as mature dubbed as it has been subbed. And I don't think you can call any series where every character dies in excrutiangly painful methods, a kid show.
I have yet to see an anime that is two different shows in the sub and dub category. They may have different lines, some added or deleted scenes and what not but they have the same concepts and the same stories and themes. Besides, who cares about the name change or the jokes. Cartoons (that include anime since anime) are put on television for the same reason everything else is, to entertain. Even if some of DBZ's jokes are pointless and unfunny the animation and the action are still there to the extant at which they attract viewers. How many people can honestly say they started watching Dragon Ball Z because of the hilarious jokes? If you're a red-blooded American like me you saw Goku kick the crap out someone in ways that no other cartoon has shown and liked it.
Why did people bring up the jokes again? If you watch DBZ you have to admit that that show is not the most well developed series, plotwise, no matter how much you love it. That is the point of DBZ. To entertain through the animation and violence not to make you laugh or think.

[LittleFluteSan]

It's basically like watching a R-Rated movie on network television, except MORE.

Sure, it's the same movie either way, but isn't it nicer to see for SURE what happens at every turn, instead of having those lazy cuts? And it sort of is a different story, because in the dubs, the language and explanation of things IS very different.

I'm not saying you're a loser because you call him Hercule instead of Mr. Satan (well, I'm not doing it YET), I totally agree with your point about watching it in a language you can understand, but his name is NOT Hercule... it's Mr. Satan. Cartoons are all about the symbolism, whether it's a joke or serious symbolism... he was named Satan for a reason, and although I agree that we can't have little children running around in grade school saying, "Boy, I love that Satan," it's still pretty cool to see the original text with everyone in the Colesium screaming SATAN! SATAN!

[Zenkai Powa]

I'm orginal/subbie. I only watch Dragonball Z on the International Channel. I refuse to watch that poor excuse of a dub that CN airs. I buy the movie DVD's and watch the Japanese versions with subtitles. To me the main thing is dialouge. The Japanese dialouge is superior in nearly every aspect. The problem is Dragonball was aimed toward the 12 and up crowd in Japan(about 13 and up here). FUNi dummied it down so it would hold the attention of the average 7 year old. But the problem is the Japanese are more mature. Americans are sheltered generally until they are 18. And then there is the stereotype that cartoons are for kids. Yet when one shows blood or something everyone goes crazy and say kids shouldn't be watching that sort of stuff. Go figure.

Another big thing for me is name changes. Pointless name changes. Just because Kuririn is pronounced close to 'Krillin' doesn't mean it has to be spelled like that. It's more like 'Kulilin' anyway. And other stuff like "Tienshinhan". They could have said Tenshinhan. Pikkon is another stupid one. Paikuhan is perfectly fine for a VA to say. And it isn't like the names are hard to say or remember(children can after all remember all 251+ Pokémon.) There are others like Burter( instead of Butta or Burta), Frieza(instead of Freeza or Freezer), Cooler(Instead of Coola).

Lastly corny jokes, horrible music, poor VA's all really ruin the experience for me. That's why I prefer the Original w/ or w/o subtitles.

[Omar Harris]

I agree about Mr. Satan being a better name, but Hercules has its symbolism too. He is stronger than any human, except those with powers. So they both have symbolism. Maybe if Toriyama knew something like this would happen he would call the character Hercules Satan or Something like that. Anyways, enough being stupid for me, some of the name changes are not needed. Launch to Lunch, or is it the other way around. Gyamouru(sp) is ok, even though I still call him Ox King. But some just sound weird only do to the whole language barrier thing.
Kuririn, Furiza, Paikuhan (either way it goes it sound like either a rewritten Piccolo or Piccolo + Gohan.) but then again that's only because of the whole language barrier. And Kame Sennin Muten Roshi (I think that's right) is the same way. If that J word (too lazy to look it up) means Cyborgs than they should have been called Cyborg 17 or 18 or whatever.
The show in America is not dummied down for kids. It is on TV but you can find dubbed episodes uncensored at Sam Goody's or other places (it's not hard. There are like 3-4 shelfs of DBZ episodes). And mistakes are only the dubber's fault because of the language barrier. The Japanese have their interpretations and we have ours so some mistakes are bound to occur even when you have 2 or 3 experts working on deciphering the script.
The VAs aren't bad. The Canadian VAs sound very realistic, except for Gohan when he was a whiny little kid. And as I said before Chris Sabat did a great job doing Vegeta in the whole "I'm a prince and he's better than me" speech when he becomes Majin Vegeta. As for the music, you obviously haven't been watching the dubs. I like the music. It is far better than the music for a lot of other shows. I know someone will challenge, and I've been arguing this sub vs. dubs case for quite a while, so this is the end of what I have to say.

[LittleFluteSan]

Actually, they DO dumb it down for kids, not so much dumb it down, but they make the language more applicable to modern american society... the reason why the dialogue in english is differenet from the Japanese dialogue has NOTHING to do with the language barrier. It's not like FUNimation has a couple of half-*** stoners who don't speak fluent japanese translating the stories. If that was the case, it wouldn't be necessary anyways, because the subs have all the dialogue already translated in the captions.

[SSJ4 Gotenks]

[QUOTE]As for the music, you obviously haven't been watching the dubs. I like the music. It is far better than the music for a lot of other shows.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I really liked the music in the Cooler movie.

[Zenkai Powa]

After watching the "Cooler's Revenge" DVD(in all three languages) it is pretty obvious to me that FUNi chooses to do what they do. All trying to make it sound "cool." The Japanese translation is spot on. Except for the fact they did some mild editing for words considered "bad" here(ex. saying Kuso is crap instead of the more literal s***). The spanish dub is closer to the Japanese than the english dub also. And the problems with it are actually from a "languauge barrier" as you put it. And that's only because when translating spanish into English you run into stuff that we [i]use[/i] to say. Like we don't say "I call myself..." or "What do you call yourself...", we say "My name is..." or "What is your name..." etc. Yet it only has a few screwed up interpretations. It defy's all logic of a problem with translation.

The majority of the VA's are bad. Some are o.k. but overall they are bad. I get tired of hearing people who sound like they are trying to take a dump or have something stuck up their ***. And especially the macho super hero voices. What pisses me off the most is all the "extra" characters with wierd accents.

Faulkner is completely incapable of making music that suits the mood of the show. And the movies are just sad. Do I really need to hear that godawful rap and rock which totally doesn't go with the scene?

[Darkened Skye]

See what I mean about how this forum is too restrictive?

Hi all. I'm BAAAAAAACCCCCKKK...It's the SUPREME LORD OF ALL THAT IS BOB Rogue Shadows, only now I've taken on the name of the computer game that I just bought and can't play because I don't have a 16 MD video card.

Back to my problem with this forum, this board. Too restirctive. I've been gone for two months now, I come back, and lookie here...this topic hasn't even left the main page yet. It's about halfway down.

[mumbles something low and sounding very mean]

oh well. No sense in trying to talk sense into those who don't want to listen. *coughpirocoughmunkiecough*

And now I go from this DBZ forum, to hopefuly never return. I shall instead cruise around the other forums.

One day, I'll probably have a question about DBZ, and I'll probably pst it here, and someone will probably close it on the basis that it's been posted a bunch of times before, and I'll go back and look for this supposed post, and I won't find it. And that HAS happened.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EDIT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I was about to make a whole new post, then I remembered that some people here would change it.

Anyways, Shadowdramon: What Card Captor Sakura, then watch Card Captors. I've been told by an avid can of CCS that it's basicly an entirely differant show from Card Captors. Only, this avid fan has some reason within her.

>>>>>>>>>>>>ANOTHER EDIT<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Why is the backgroub blue? Oh well, that's beside the point:

LittleFluteSan: A third good thing about DBZ dubs: They're still very popular in America. DBZ lost it's spark in Japan a while ago.

A fouth good thing about American subs in general: They're family-freindly. Sure, there's now less blood and guts and whores and people saying things like "AAAARRRGGGHHHH! MY ****ING ARM! YOU BLEW OFF MY ****ING ARM YOU ****ING *******!". But, what if a little kid wants to watch DBZ because all his freinds can, but his parants decide it's too violent? What is a kid wants to watch Digimon, but because of some Yaoi and Yuri refferances in it, their parants say 'no?' HMMMM?

You're thinking along the lines of what YOU want, what YOU would like to see. But, America isn't about YOU. It's about US. Republic, man! Popular vote wins! And the people who bought the rights to make an American version of DBZ decided that they'd get a bigger fan base and please more people if they edited it to be family-freindly rather then keep it as it was!

Besides, how long do you think it'd last? Name the last American-made cartoon show made for adults, and ONLY adults (so the Simpsons is right out) that was successful.

Once upon a time, there was an American-made anime called Invasion: America, that aired on the WB. It lasted for less then one season.

[Kinetic]

[color=darkblue]
In the famous words of..someone...'you're an idiot Jim'.

The first thing I have to say is that this was completely immature..

"*cough[b]piro[/b]coughcough[b]munkie[/b]cough*"

What the- that is comepletely idiotic.

Secondly, I don't care that they took out the blood, cuss words, and everything else, but that's not all they did. They implemented those corny jokes, they took out 13 (count 'em) 13 episodes, and SO much more that I can't remember right now.

BTW: The reason it's not on the second page yet, is because it's called a [i]discussion[/i], that's a new word for you. People keep bringing up new points, and talking about it. That's what people do, have done, and will always do, because it's a [i]discussion[/i].

Thirdly, if you can't find the topic they talked about, you're an idiot, and they usually put a link to it anyway.

Next point, if you don't like the forum, don't come! That simple, if you're going to sit here and trash talk, then go away, shoo, shoo!

One more thing, the shows weren't MEANT for little kids, maybe digimon, but DBZ? Hell no. America sucks, as well as the other countries that dub it, and they only dub it like this because they are money hungry freaks, and know that little kids will buy anything.
[/color]

[Darkened Skye]

I know that. I'm not a COMPLEATE idiot.

Before I continue, don't get me started on my level of maturity, 'cause it's either not there or so large it's mind boggeling. Oh, darn, here I go. . .I'm more mature then most of the people I've ever met. Online and offline.

Wouldn't try to insult me right now. Thunder and lighting and rain outside of my home. This means that I'm at my happiest, my smartest, my brightest, my cheeriest, and I don't want to continue about that.

now, onto the nitpicking:

ORIGONALY POSTED BY ARIES:

In the famous words of..someone...'you're an idiot Jim'.
-Oh, realy now? If I had a dime for every time I'd heard something along those lines, not only could I prove to everyone just how massive my brain is but I could also re-stabalize several Third World nations.

The first thing I have to say is that this was completely immature..
-You forgot a dot. It's not ".." It's ". . ." Spaces between each dot, and there's three. Granted, my spelling and grammar leaves something to be desired, but come on. That's a third-grade mistake.

"*coughpirocoughcoughmunkiecough*"

What the- that is comepletely idiotic.
-Have you heard of COMEDY?!

Secondly, I don't care that they took out the blood, cuss words, and everything else, but that's not all they did. They implemented those corny jokes, they took out 13 (count 'em) 13 episodes, and SO much more that I can't remember right now.
-Ever stop to think of why they might have edited those episodes out? by the time they reached them, DBZ was probably well underway in America.

BTW: The reason it's not on the second page yet, is because it's called a discussion, that's a new word for you. People keep bringing up new points, and talking about it. That's what people do, have done, and will always do, because it's a discussion.
-I have been in more discussions, online and offline, with myself and with others, then you could possible dare to dream, Aeries. I am single-handedly responsible for many, many people on another board stopping, thinking, and deciding that Hiyako (Hikari/Yolei lesbian relationship in Digimon) isn't sick, that newbies aren't out to ruin boards, and that I am the greatest. Okay, I lie about the last one. But the other two are ture.

Thirdly, if you can't find the topic they talked about, you're an idiot, and they usually put a link to it anyway.
-I dunno, I looked around quite a bit. Say, if you're such a smart guy, then show me where the last threat about your most favorite DBZ villain is.

Next point, if you don't like the forum, don't come! That simple, if you're going to sit here and trash talk, then go away, shoo, shoo!
-Well, I never. What right do you have? In case you didn't notice, there are no laws as of yet governing the Internet specificly. I'm free to come and go on most sites as I please. How dare you kick me out? What kind of Philistine are you?

One more thing, the shows weren't MEANT for little kids, maybe digimon, but DBZ? Hell no. America sucks, as well as the other countries that dub it, and they only dub it like this because they are money hungry freaks, and know that little kids will buy anything.
-You think I don't know this? Did you actualy READ my above topic? Let me go over the story again...

-Once upon a time, there was a little girl who everyone loved. She had a red cape, and...GREAT FLAMING EYEBROWS! Oh, wait, that's Samurai Jack.

-Once upon a time, there was an American-made anime called Invasion: America, that aired on the WB. It lasted for less then one season. The story was great, if it had aired as a live-action show, then it probably would have lasted. But guess what it aired as? A cartoon. HMMM...

-Even some very dark animated movies are underrated due to the fact that they're animated. Titan: AE has more blood in it then the whole of the dubbed DBZ, but it's rated PG. DBZ would be lucky to be rated that.

-Hell, even live action movies get no respect. Was Jurrasic Park made for little kids? No. But, oh, look! There's a toy line for it! A crappy one, too.

[Darkened Skye]

Woah. . .time out.

You said America SUCKS?!

Okay, this is no longer about me being insulted. This has transended that plane of existance and is now heading straight to a very dark plane.

This is now about the millions of Americans who DIED just to that you could say "DBZ dubs suck". They DIED so that you could bring your whining, complaing, authoritian *** in here and say "my way is right and your way is wrong" Like Apocalymon. "Oh, my life sucks so much! Everyone else must suffer because of it!"

I don't care if I'm double posting, I won't be angry at the moderator that moves this up to my last post.

I don't LOVE America - I would never risk my very, very important life to defend it, I don't have the courage or some silly sense of pride that says that fleeing is dishonorable. But I respect and honor those who DO have the courage and DO have the pride to do it. I have respect for ANYONE trying to do that, in fact - weather it be a Christian Matyr (and I HATE, repeate, HATE, the Christian religion), a Kamakazi, or "Divine Wind" pilot who was willing to throw his body, plane, and life away for his beloved country, or even just the old, forggoton WWII vertan who said "I can make a differnace".

Aries...I can't even think of some kind of insult or remark. Saying what you just did, even as a joke, is just. . .just. . .wrong.

[Kinetic]

[color=darkblue]
"-Oh, realy now? If I had a dime for every time I'd heard something along those lines, not only could I prove to everyone just how massive my brain is but I could also re-stabalize several Third World nations."
[b]
All you're proving there is that everyone thinks you're an idiot ;)
[/b]
"-You forgot a dot. It's not ".." It's ". . ." Spaces between each dot, and there's three. Granted, my spelling and grammar leaves something to be desired, but come on. That's a third-grade mistake."
[b]
Ooh, I really care. 1. I've never seen anyone type it like that. 2. Even if I did know that, I'd be too lazy to type it like that, anyway. 3. My third grade teacher sucked, and I was an idiot (still am).[/b]

"-Have you heard of COMEDY?!"
[b]
Yes, and what you said isn't comedy, it's an insult.[/b]

"-Ever stop to think of why they might have edited those episodes out? by the time they reached them, DBZ was probably well underway in America."[b]

What? If it was underway, why would they edit them? Either you confused me, or you prove once again that you're an idiot.[/b]

"-I have been in more discussions, online and offline, with myself and with others, then you could possible dare to dream, Aeries. I am single-handedly responsible for many, many people on another board stopping, thinking, and deciding that Hiyako (Hikari/Yolei lesbian relationship in Digimon) isn't sick, that newbies aren't out to ruin boards, and that I am the greatest. Okay, I lie about the last one. But the other two are ture."

[b]I don't think that's sick, I don't think newbies are out to ruin boards, and I don't think that you're the greatest ;)[/b]

"-I dunno, I looked around quite a bit. Say, if you're such a smart guy, then show me where the last threat about your most favorite DBZ villain is."

[b]I'll go find that for you :)[/b]

"-Well, I never. What right do you have? In case you didn't notice, there are no laws as of yet governing the Internet specificly. I'm free to come and go on most sites as I please. How dare you kick me out? What kind of Philistine are you?"

[b]I'm not kicking you out. I'm saying that if you don't want to come, you don't have to. And that if you are going to come in, and one of your first posts say how bad the boards are, we don't want you here.[/b]

"-You think I don't know this? Did you actualy READ my above topic? Let me go over the story again...

-Once upon a time, there was a little girl who everyone loved. She had a red cape, and...GREAT FLAMING EYEBROWS! Oh, wait, that's Samurai Jack.

-Once upon a time, there was an American-made anime called Invasion: America, that aired on the WB. It lasted for less then one season. The story was great, if it had aired as a live-action show, then it probably would have lasted. But guess what it aired as? A cartoon. HMMM...

-Even some very dark animated movies are underrated due to the fact that they're animated. Titan: AE has more blood in it then the whole of the dubbed DBZ, but it's rated PG. DBZ would be lucky to be rated that.

-Hell, even live action movies get no respect. Was Jurrasic Park made for little kids? No. But, oh, look! There's a toy line for it! A crappy one, too."

[b]I don't even know what you were trying to say, but I agree, that toy line sucks[/b].
[/color]

[quote][i]Originally posted by...whatever your name is[/i][b]
Okay, this is no longer about me being insulted. This has transended that plane of existance and is now heading straight to a very dark plane.

This is now about the millions of Americans who DIED just to that you could say "DBZ dubs suck". They DIED so that you could bring your whining, complaing, authoritian *** in here and say "my way is right and your way is wrong" Like Apocalymon. "Oh, my life sucks so much! Everyone else must suffer because of it!"

I don't care if I'm double posting, I won't be angry at the moderator that moves this up to my last post.

I don't LOVE America - I would never risk my very, very important life to defend it, I don't have the courage or some silly sense of pride that says that fleeing is dishonorable. But I respect and honor those who DO have the courage and DO have the pride to do it. I have respect for ANYONE trying to do that, in fact - weather it be a Christian Matyr (and I HATE, repeate, HATE, the Christian religion), a Kamakazi, or "Divine Wind" pilot who was willing to throw his body, plane, and life away for his beloved country, or even just the old, forggoton WWII vertan who said "I can make a differnace".

Aries...I can't even think of some kind of insult or remark. Saying what you just did, even as a joke, is just. . .just. . .wrong.[/b][/quote]

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And you would understand, if I had explained that remark more, that I was talking about America's system, and the way it works, not about America itself. There are so many flaws in America's system, and I can't stand how things not meant for children are aimed for them because some executive wants more money.

I do not complain about my life, and what stops me from doing this is thinking about how other peoples lives are, and what they have to go through. Usually people who are homeless and things, thinking about that stops me.

I would give my life for my country. I would give my life for my friends. I would give my life for strangers. I would even give my life for you. Death is just another step in life, and sure, I'm not fond of being hurt, but I'll take a bullet for you. I did not insult the couragous people (I'm not courageous, but I would still take that bullet), in fact, I love that those people are that good.

You hate christianity? I can understand not agreeing with a religion, but that's just wrong. I am a proud christian, and I don't care what religion you are (most of my friends are even muslim), and I would NEVER, I repeat [b]NEVER[/b] insult another persons religion.
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[Darkened Skye]

America's system has worked for three hundred years and has not failed us yet.

Let's face it: it is all about money. Money gets you power, it gets you land, it gets you women (or men, if that's your thing). Money gets you freinds. Money gets you almost anything - it just can't get you love, true love.

But it CAN get you almost-as-good, second-rate love!

I never said I hated CHRISTIANS, I said I hated CHRISTIANITY. Most of my freinds are Christian, a number of them are Hindu, one or two are Islamic, and I think I have a Jewish freind as well. My mother is a Christian.

I hate Christianity for eight reasons:

1) ROME - Notice how things started going downhill in the Roman Empire AFTER the Christians seized power? Romans were so busy thinking about the afterlife that they forgot about matters here on Earth. Someone once said 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do'. Well, the Christians did it, and as such I'm not speaking Latin right now. NOOOO, I'm speaking bloody ENGLISH and SPANISH!!!! Spanish SUCKS! I didn't even WANT spanish! I told my school that I wanted to learn FRENCH!!! But NOOOOO, they put me in SPANISH! If not for the fall of Rome, I wouldn't even HAVE THIS PROBLEM!!!!!

2) SINGULARITY: One God? One allmighty, all-powerful deity? You mean that DOESN'T scare you? What happens if, one day, he gets into a bad mood? No one can stop him (refuse to do the capital 'H') from just going THWAK! and obliterating the planet.

3) FEAR - BELIEVE IN GOD OR GO TO HELL! ONLY HUMANS HAVE SOULS! DOGS WILL GO TO HELL! TREES WILL GO TO HELL! Come on! There could be a Hindu out there who never, ever, ever hurt anyone or any thing, but because he's hindu, he's going to Hell. How fair is that? Besides, if only Christians go to Heaven, and only good Christians at that, then the current Demon/Angel ratio is 1,000,000/1. Which is okay, Demons look cooler and for all we know Satan is actualy a fairly nice guy. All we ever hear is the Christian's point of veiw, we never here what Satanists have to say.

4) LIES - Jesus was not the messiah, he was not a son of any god, that's just something someone somewhere made up. Jesus was just a carpenter and probably a healer who said "hey, here's a thought: How about we all be nice to each other for a change?" and got nailed to a cross for it. One thousand bucks says his name probably wasn't even Jesus Christ.

5) DENILE: NO GOD BUT YAHWEH EXISTS! (Yahweh is the origonal name used for God by the Hebrews. Okay, actualy it's YHWH, but translated it's Yahweh). Saying there's only one supreme Overdeity is bad enough, but denieing the existance of all others? Come ON! The Romans were great about this. They said "Only Roman gods watch over Romans - but then again, only Egyptian ones guard Egyptians, only Greek ones watch over the Greeks..." And so on. They believed that all Gods existed, but certain Gods watched over certain people. Which was very nice of them. Smart people, the Romans.

6) CRUSADES: Do you know what the Crusades were fought over? Jerusalem (probably an SP there). Do you know who owned Jerusalem? The Muslims, specificly, Saladin (another probably SP). The Christians decided they want it, so they went out to go conquering 'In the name of God'. Hundreds upon thousands of humans died just to get to that one blasted land with little or no stratigic value. CHILDREN died. There was a Childrens crusade, where the Children believed one sea or another would part and let them cross to that godsforsaken peice of land. Do you know what happened? DEATH! Most DIED! They DROWNED! And what was this all for? the Muslims were perfectly happy to let the Christians in before. Hell, they all worshiped the same God, just in differant ways, so who cared? And as an added bonus, they were getting money out of it - the Christians who came would need food to eat, clothes to wear, and a place to sleep.

7) WAR PIGS: Yahweh is one of those deities who came from a warlike people. When life was just starting in Africa, man and woman were equal. The man hunted for food and did all the muscle work. The woman birthed and raised kids, tended to the home and hearth, and gathered food usch as fruits and vegitables. Hell, the earliest deities were goddesses.
Then the warlike nations came. They came and they conqured. One of these nations was called the HEBREWS. They blew away and enslaved a peaceful civilization.

8)...DAMNIT! I knew this one. I HAD IT...agh...I'll probably edit this later when I remember it.

[Omar Harris]

Uh. . .can we take this argument somewhere else and return to the old topic. Not to sound like I'm the boss, because I'm not, but this is a DBZ thread, not a "who's religion sucks thread".

I too hate how everyone talks about America's system of dubbing, because either way, no matter how much I or any other dubby argues there are still those subbies who are just so dead set on the idea that they know everything about the original and will argue you down.
Blood and guts? so what?
Name change? And your point is?
Anime is anime and put on TV to entertain so I could no longer care what subbies think or anything like that. I'm just watching the show to be entertained by the great art and fighting scenes and what have you. Despite the changes made we are still getting the bulk of the good stuff. Not all violence has to be done with guts spewing everywhere and they are allowing some blood scenes to slip lately. I am a smart dubby, I knew about the originals for the Cell and Majin Buu sagas before they came out, since I am so blessed with Internet access. I just like the show for the ET value and so long as me and someone else aren't bumping heads over a TV show I'm fine.

And I agree with Darkened Skye about adult animation. Notice how so few Amereican cartoons for adults are well known. We Americans are weened on the belief that TV can influence kids so cutting DBZ for 7 year olds and above so that it can be seen and make money in the first place was a logical thing. The show stills gets away with some things they wouldn't have allowed in cartoons of the past and that is at least good enough for me to watch.

[Kinetic]

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I couldn't care less that they dub things. The only reason I hate it, is because it's marketed towards children, because they know that that's what will make money, even if it's not appropriate.
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[vegeta rocker]

As for episodes they won't show, why don't the put them on Adult Swim? Sure kids will watch 'em anyway but i have seen some of the ones that they won't show and they really aren't that bad.

surely we dubbies are not all that bad. :)
the only subs i ever watch aren't db.

[Darkened Skye]

Oh, come on.

'they changed it all just to get the money'. Well, incase you didn't notice, the people who made Dragonball Z made it for the money. DBZ is a money-making-machine, pure and simple. Some fans can sit here and argue all day about how changing DBZ is like throwing a can of red paint on the Mona Lisa, but at the end of the day, DBZ doesn't even aproch the Mona Lisa, and, oh, by the way, the Mona Lisa was painted for money, so it's just as bad. Meanwhile, other fans are eagerly waiting for 6:30 PM so that they can watch DBZ which, by the way, isn't actualy half as good as it's made out to be, as we only get a good fight once every five episodes. It's like a soap opra with aliens. Nothing HAPPENS until you're about to change the channel out of boredom. And other fans of DBZ realise this, and are instead eagerly awaiting for monday, when Zoids: Chaotic Century starts airing at 4:30 PM, not 6:00 AM.

Face it! If not for the fact that they changed it and edited it and 'defiled' it, then we would not be sitting here like loosers arguing about how they changed it and edited it and stuff. It's that plain and that simple and I realy don't see the point of arguing it any further. And seeing as I made this thread about three months back, I think I'm entiteled to say that I am sick and tired of seeing it's name and as such I realy, realy, realy, REALY want it to just DIE! Unless we all stop the flaming back and forth and just sit down and talk.

I think that people should be allowed to delete their own threads.

[DBZanimeFreak3]

you can most likely tell i' m what you would classify a dubbie. i first saw the show in english and liked it, but a friend of mine said it was better in japanese being ment for older kids in their teens, and i guess you can tell that even for watching the dubbed series.
but for all you people who like the cussing and guts, i' m a fan too, but i' m not made of money so i can' t keep running to get dvds but i do once in a while. but when you watch the dubbed series, you can tell when they would cuss and trash mouth so you basically can think of it, corny as it may sound. but guts and blood is a different story. the show is pretty lame when they get nailed and they only dribbled blood.

but here in America, old people and over protecting parents think if they show violence, someone is going to shoot up their school or something gay like that. thats why thay dub and edit so badly.

but even though i do watch the english series every day, i do like the japanese, or something like akira.

[Kinetic]

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I don't even know why I'm arguing about this :p I hate this show, because it's plotless, repetitive, and even though the animation is alright, it's just a bunch of people making their muscles bigger, and punching each other. Even the fights are boring. I just post in here if there's nothing else to do :p

BTW: You can delete your own topics. Go to your first post, click "edit", then check the "delete" box, and click "delete now"
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