Axis of evil? what is he thinking?

[Kent]

one reassurring thing about those missiles,
it takes three days to setup and launch an ICBM and theres word going around that america is gonna be pro active for now on.
just like with the russians.
an open threat that if you even go for your gun, we will already be shooting.
hey it might not always be the smartest, but for the whole cold war, it seemed to have worked , just might work now too.

[Juu]

but here's one thing, why is bush aiming for all the poor, yet far away countries? if cuba was farther away would he be aiming for them too? *sigh*
and another thing, I agree with gotenks on the people sticking up for their rights, but the cold war? it worked? I really am against war. If were ruling any kind of country, I'd do my best to try and prevent war, even if it takes some hard work in peace talks. That's what clinton did. and with that, isreal is more friendly to our country. maybe if we tried to do that, there wouldn't be as much terrorism.

but... as long as there's people, there will never be peace.

[Justin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GotenksSSJ343 [/i]
[B]


I don't I'm just saying there going to do it again if Bush would've put them on the axis of evil list but this time when they set up the missiles there gonna launch them very quickly and do it some more untill we're a small piece of dust. [/B][/QUOTE]

Russia isn't stupid, dude. We have those nuclear missile, too, you know....

-Justin

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Juuthena [/i]
[B]but here's one thing, why is bush aiming for all the poor, yet far away countries? if cuba was farther away would he be aiming for them too? *sigh*
and another thing, I agree with gotenks on the people sticking up for their rights, but the cold war? it worked? I really am against war. If were ruling any kind of country, I'd do my best to try and prevent war, even if it takes some hard work in peace talks. That's what clinton did. and with that, isreal is more friendly to our country. maybe if we tried to do that, there wouldn't be as much terrorism.

but... as long as there's people, there will never be peace. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]Why is Bush aiming for the poor, far away countries? Were you born yesterday?

Afghanistan was a breeding ground for terrorism. And now, the nation is just about to have its very first democratic elections in some twenty years.

You can't possibly even begin to tell me that what the USA and its allies did in Afghanistan was wrong.

The cold war [i]did[/i] "work", in the sense that the Soviet Union is now Russia...and is now democratic (though still reasonably corrupt).

And that Cuba comment is just silly. Do you think he just sits at his desk and says "Ohh, they are so far away...so let's bomb 'em!". That's just stupid. Countries are involved for a [i]reason[/i] -- if Bush just went after nations because they were far away...well...that would be insanity. lol

I definitely think that you are an idealist and not a realist. It's fine to have ideals, as long as you understand how the world works. It's all very well to say "let's have peace talks", but if somone has a gun to your head, do you [i]really[/i] think you can have peace talks then?

I am really beginning to understand why Justin and others are disagreeing with you so much. [/color]

[Kent]

james just said it would be stupid to just lobb missiles since their so far away. i would qoute it but i dont know how to get another persons reply to show up on mine.
point being...
one president of the u.s.a. did take the approach of just missiles from continents away.
guess what his name was... hint
former president _illiam _efferson _linton
and another hint, the mystery man has great intergrity and a unique ability to blow hot air up peoples @#$.

[Justin]

Juuthena, I have nothing against you. Please don't believe I do. But many of the things you said...it's like you have no idea what's really happening in the world today.

I'll try to better explain my points, now that I've calmed down considerably:

North Korea is an [i]aggressive[/i] communist nation. They're public relations are terrible, and they're people have next-to-nothing. They want to make South Korea the same way. There will be no "merging"...there will only be conquering.

Iraq's only real problem is it's leaders. Of course, I guess when you get right down to it, that's the same for any nation.

Iran is the least volitile of these nations, but they're no where near perfect. They're public relations are also terrible, and all the picture you've seen of Afghan women being forced into solitude and discrimination...it's the same in Iran.

Again, I don't have anything against anyone in this topic, I was just sickened by how idealistic many made themselves appear. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I'd just like to say: Having an opinion is fine. It's great, actually. So long as it's an educated and well-thought opinion. If you have no idea what's going on, and no idea how what you are saying may affect others, you have no business stating your position.

I talk too much...

-Justin

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]Having an opinion is fine. It's great, actually. So long as it's an educated and well-thought opinion. If you have no idea what's going on, and no idea how what you are saying may affect others, you have no business stating your position.



[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]I agree completely. :)[/color]

[Delian]

My words did spark angry replies. I was never meaning them to the American people (and Texas was never mentioned in my post). Iraq and Iran aren't perfect, far from it actually. But neither is the American or any other Government. I know a lot of people who live in America. They're good people
I haven't lived in Australia all my life. I do know and have seen war first hand. I have seen missiles fly over buildings. I have spent time in underground shelters while our homes were being destroyed. As for all of you who support the Isrealis in slaughtering Palestinians you probably don't even know a quarter of the stuff that goes on there. The media and your so called news only shows you a minute percentage, which is completely favourable to America and Isreal. Try going past your own small sheltered minds and see the big picture. I'm not racist. Please believe me. I do not hate and i'm not idealistic.
I do watch as much news as I can, even foreign news, so that I can see everything that goes on, heartbreaking news and stories that most likely none of you have seen or heard because they don't put Isreal or the American Government in a perfect light. You will see them as murderers, killing palestinian women and children even, so that they don't grow up to be bombers. I've seen footage of a man with his little boy begging to the Isreali soldiers to spare him and his son because they have nothing. So the soldiers kill his boy and leave him to suffer. Please do not tell me that these people are human. They know nothing about humanity.

PLEASE do NOT tell me that I know nothing because I have seen and know violence to the likes of which none of you can ever comprehend.

This is my view. If it clashes with any of yours then so be it.

[James]

[color=royalblue]I must say, Delian...I can definitely see your point of view in this post.

We have family friends who are from Croatia and they were telling us about various things that happened during the war. It can be quite horrific, to learn of things that you would not otherwise know.

I definitely believe that the international community is far too tolerant of Israel's position, even though I personally do not agree with the terrorism coming from [i]some[/i] parts of the Palestinean side.[/color]

[Guest Matt]

[color=red][b]It seems like everytime there is a Palistinian suicide bombing, Israeli action escalades. Well, then the Palistinians retaliate with another suicide bombing. Does anyone else see a trend??[/b][/color]

[Delian]

It is a cycle that will continue. It doesn't seem like any of the governments want peace. Palestinian leaders do share some of the blame, as do all Governments, but I definately do not condone the inhumane killing of innocent men, women and children. This is exactly what is happening and no outside country seems to be interested in stopping.

[Juu]

yeah, I agree now,... if a country bombs you.... the 'good' way to solve it would be with negosiations, but I understand now that it would be too risky to try to make peace talks RIGHT after another country bombs you.... ok, I get it now. and I agree with del's point.
maybe I was being a lil too idealistic.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Delian [/i]
[B]It is a cycle that will continue. It doesn't seem like any of the governments want peace. Palestian leaders do share some of the blame, as do all Governments, but I definately do not condone the inhumane killing of innocent men, women and children. This is exactly what is happening and no outside country seems to be interested in stopping. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo] It isn't that other countries are not interested in stopping the conflict, I believe that most countries would willingly step in if they thought it would do any good. Everytime peace talks between the two countries seem to progress, a fanatic from either side tends to ruin negotiations. It seems that too many Israeli and Palestinian people have no desire to compromise.

I think that most countries have no clue how to resolve this situation or they would have already taken the neccassary steps to do so. [/color]

[Justin]

I never said America was perfect. Or Isreal, for that matter. Sadly, no government, and no person is.

Unfortunately, no one can choose what situation they are born into. There are good people amongst the bad, bad amonst the good. I support the United States, and I support Isreal. I won't stand down from that. However, I don't support murder.

The man you mentioned, killing the boy and leaving the man to suffer...in my mind there is no punishment I could think of that would suit trash like him.

But I didn't say you offended my national pride or what I stand for with your comment...you offended [b]me[/b]. You offended another culture and another sense of pride that is near completely separate from this issue. So I won't go into that.

I've taken my time, trying to make sure the words I've used for this post were not offensive...but I'm afriad at this point my words might sting because of the limitations of language. I apologize for this: Anyone...[b]anyone[/b], mind you...who takes innocent lives in the name of anything is wrong. Let soldiers fight soldiers. Leave civilians be.

Again, I aplogize if I offended anyone. I honestly tried not to, and I think my point suffered for it. But just because you offended me once, and just because our positions on one issue conflict with each other, doesn't mean I want you to leave. You're just defending your position, as I am.

-Justin

[Chaos]

First Case: Bush is doing his job, and he's doing it damn fine. Lay off the fella.

Second Case: As for the people that support the Isreali, I'm not one of them. My mom was being all sad when there was a second bombing within twenty-four hours, and I said to her face, exactly "Who the Hell cares? Let all the ****in crazy ones kill themselves off, and then those people can get back to bein all democratic like they were in the 80s and ****".

Now most of you might not see this case from my point of view. But then again, I really don't care. One of the benifeits of being 99.9% heartless.

[Juu]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i]
[B]Unfortunately, no one can choose what situation they are born into. There are good people amongst the bad, bad amonst the good. I support the United States, and I support Isreal. I won't stand down from that. However, I don't support murder.

The man you mentioned, killing the boy and leaving the man to suffer...in my mind there is no punishment I could think of that would suit trash like him.

But I didn't say you offended my national pride or what I stand for with your comment...you offended [b]me[/b]. You offended another culture and another sense of pride that is near completely separate from this issue. So I won't go into that.

I've taken my time, trying to make sure the words I've used for this post were not offensive...but I'm afriad at this point my words might sting because of the limitations of language. I apologize for this: Anyone...[b]anyone[/b], mind you...who takes innocent lives in the name of anything is wrong. Let soldiers fight soldiers. Leave civilians be.

Again, I aplogize if I offended anyone. I honestly tried not to, and I think my point suffered for it.

-Justin [/B][/QUOTE]

Well said justin,.... well said....

[Amphion]

Why is the US so criticised for not being perfect?

First of all, hes not worried about all the countries that have balistic missiles. Hes worried about those in particular. The US is not going to launch one of its nukes at some part of the world to settle a dispute or to murder innocent people. Iraq, well prime example, they launch scuds at Israel during desert storm. they could have been easily packed with a nuclear warhead. And North Korea, launching missiles over their neighbering countries. THOSE are the countries we are worried about.

Second, I stand behind what Bush says. Iran is known for harboring terrorists, Iraq, well we all know about Iraq. And North Korea. Im not sure about what all goes on there, and I dont really care, but I know that they do have nuclear missiles. Their Dictator ship several years ago was a very agrresive and anti democratic. Im not sure how their leaders feel now though.

I dont think it angered many countries, just the Comunistic, terrorist harboring, anti democratic ones.

I dont know why you feel the need to jump on the US every chance you get, you seem to have alot of hatred for the US too. All we do is try and protect our selves, and protect others. When did that become such a bad thing. Any country that is attacked, will defend it self. So why are we being criticised for doing just that. Sure we make mistakes, everyone does. Im not sure where you live but just imagine your neighboring country launching ballistic missiles over you. It doesnt feel to good. Yeah we have Missiles but we dont misuse them. Bush was correct, any country that:

Harbors Terrorist
Kills Innocent People
or
Misuses Ballistic Missiles

is evil.

[Delian]

The example of the boy and his father is only one of many...thousands.

Everyone is apologizing if they offended people and I apologize too. Honestly, I really do, but with a topic like this, people will have views that will anger others. I know I did, but I had to get my point across. I honestly did not mean to offend any cultures.

However, I won't stand down from absolutely anything I have said.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Amphion [/i]
[B]Why is the US so criticised for not being perfect?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Because we present and claim ourselves to be....

NOTHING is perfect.... just like Nothing is right or wrong... it's just general acceptance or opinion... I suppose that requires much more thought and analysis though... oh well...

I think whether or not someone's opinion on someone or something differs from yours, there's no reason to assume that it's right or wrong to think that way. Or that it's acceptable or not accpetable... different people, even from your own backyard will have different views than you, and the only thing you can do is accept it, because if you don't, it doesn't do anything but create a bigger prejudice in your own mind. And that leads to nothing but worse ideals.

[James]

[color=royalblue]Delian, I think that you and Justin are actually agreeing somewhat.

On a basic level, you both agree that an atrocity of any sort is unacceptable. No matter who it is committed by.

And if we take that reasoning and underly all our opinions with it...I think that at least, we are all on the same page in some basic way.

Erm, I hope that made sense. lol o_O[/color]

[Delian]

I guess I can see where you are coming from James

[Amphion]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]

Because we present and claim ourselves to be....

[/B][/QUOTE]

No, its not the US as a whole, its the FEW goverment officials that think that. Yes we beileve that our country is better off than alot of other countries. It is. And I am not sure what you mean by we present ourselves to be perfect, how do we do that?

[Justin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]
Erm, I hope that made sense. lol o_O[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]
NEVER!!!!

Actually, it does.

Sadly, it's as Delian said: Everyone has views that are going to conflict with others. We can't all get along all the time. Though, I don't hold any hard feelings against anyone.

Unfortunately, we can't solve the crisis in the Middle East, or the crises the world over all by talking. Palestine and Isreal have been fighting for generations, and regretably it doesn't show any signs of stopping.

I thank those who agree with me, I respect those who do not.

-Justin

[Guest Matt]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Amphion [/i]
[B]

No, its not the US as a whole, its the FEW goverment officials that think that. Yes we beileve that our country is better off than alot of other countries. It is. And I am not sure what you mean by we present ourselves to be perfect, how do we do that? [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red][b]A lot of people want to come to the US because it is "The land of the free". they will be out of politial oppression. so, to them, it is perfect. so they spread the word saying america is perfect. people don't really care if we say we are perfect or not. they only care what they think. So if they think we are perfect and hate us for it, then, no matter what we say, we are perfect in their eyes. We are not perfect.[/b][/color]

[Juu]

as you guys said, yes, nothing is, had, ever will be perfect. But we still need to do everything we can to help the things we love, but not kill everything you hate.