The Execution of the Mentally retarded.

[BabyGirl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SuperSayian [/i]
[B]None of that humanitarian bull. They are human. Thus, they should be treated as if they were no different, since that's what they ask... [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]Until you've lived with someone with a disability and know how hard it is to fight for even getting them included in a goddamn elementary classroom, then you have no idea how shi[i][/i]tty what you just said is to those of us who have :)

(Personal anger coming out...sowwy...it's not directed towards you...just a lot of stuff that's happened lately V_V; )[/color]

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i]
[B]

[color=deeppink][I]
And half of the people who commit homocide probably can't be rehabilitated, and yet those who admit to mental illness are sent to centers [i]for[/i] rehabilitation.
[/i][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, that's a large chunk of my point.

I have no qualms with someone being sent to a rehabilitation center [I]if[/I] rehabilitation is possible. Thus, there are degrees to which I feel the death penalty should be carried out.

If someone with a mental handicap committed a freak accident and killed someone, then I have no doubt that they should be inserted into a rehabilitation program. However, should this same person pick up a knife and slice someone to ribbons, then they have a serious problem.

My question is, "How is it possible to rehabilitate someone who has no way of comprehending the wrongfulness of their crime in the first place?"

Should the accused be mentally retarded, but able to face successful rehabilitation after committing an accidental murder, then I support the process.

Hmmm, I don't want to sound like a monster taking this position. But these arguments are kinda hard to word without sounding a little cold. :o


Oh yeah, and I should bring up something about your point Lady Macaiodh.

Imprisoning innocent people is also wrong, but we cannot empty the prisons because of that minimal risk. If improvements are needed in the system of representation, or in the use of scientific evidence such as DNA testing, then those reforms should be instituted.

However, the need for reform is not a reason to abolish the death penalty. Besides, many of the claims of innocence by those who have been released from death row are actually based on legal technicalities. Just because someone's conviction is overturned years later and the prosecutor decides not to retry him, does not mean he is actually innocent.

Anyway, even the theoretical execution of an innocent person can be justified because the death penalty saves lives by deterring other killings.

[BabyGirl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]Hmmm, I don't want to sound like a monster taking this position. But these arguments are kinda hard to word without sounding a little cold. :o [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]Nope, your points make perfect sense. I understand what you were trying to say now...and I agree.[/color]

[Nebula]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SuperSayian [/i]
[B]If they have the piece of mind to pick up a shotgun, go find a specific person, and blow their brains out, then I think they deserve to get whatever they've got comin.[/B][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=teal]So you are saying, that no matter what everyone should be punished the same right? I get what your saying, but I don't totally agree with you. The people that were doing the killing, didn't understand what they were doing, why it was wrong or any of those things. I say NO to the execution of mentally ill/retarded people.[/COLOR]

[Chaos]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i]
[B][color=darkblue]so, SuperSayian, you're basically talking about an "eye for an eye" kind of thing? i suppose that's a belief people have to decide for themselves.

or maybe i'm misunderstanding you?[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]


Exactly what I'm saying.



[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i]
[B]

[color=deeppink]Until you've lived with someone with a disability and know how hard it is to fight for even getting them included in a goddamn elementary classroom, then you have no idea how shi[i][/i]tty what you just said is to those of us who have :)
[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]


I actually don't know what it's like, except for what I've seen at school with the Special Education programs. To be honest, I still feel the same way. As a majority, so I've heard, mentally ill people want to be treated just like your Average Joe. So then, why turn around after years of trying to do that and say that they can get off of a death penalty? If they have sense enough to plan certain murders, then they should pay the price.



[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i]
[B]

[color=deeppink](Personal anger coming out...sowwy...it's not directed towards you...just a lot of stuff that's happened lately V_V; )[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]


Heh, believe me, you're alotted to have some rage. God knows I have enough anger. So don't worry yaself about it, hear?



[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Nebula [/i]
[B]

[COLOR=teal]So you are saying, that no matter what everyone should be punished the same right? I get what your saying, but I don't totally agree with you. The people that were doing the killing, didn't understand what they were doing, why it was wrong or any of those things. I say NO to the execution of mentally ill/retarded people.[/COLOR] [/B][/QUOTE]


You're missing the whole picture. What I'm saying is, treat them like you would anyone that would be classified as 'normal'. But you have to admit, when someone of lower mental capacity commits a premeditated murder, then they should get whatever punishment that's deserved.

So yeah, Lady Macaiodh said it the best on how I feel: "eye for an eye".

[Valen]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i]
[B]

[color=deeppink]Until you've lived with someone with a disability and know how hard it is to fight for even getting them included in a goddamn elementary classroom, then you have no idea how shi[i][/i]tty what you just said is to those of us who have :)

[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

I know what you mean BG... my friend's brother is autistic(sp?) and it's not an easy thing to keep up with him... especially since he likes to hide things... I have been with them trying to get him into a classroom... it is VERY hard.


[quote]
... "eye for an eye".
[/quote]

Exactly... but for someone who doesn't know right from wrong because of a disability is a bit different from someone who does know right from wrong and does the crime...

[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]Bah...because of a combination of this thread and reading a book that mentions a Romanian institution for "unrecoverable (disabled) children" in Vulturesti, I had one horrible dream last night.

The dream: I was lying in bed, about to wake up. My dad came to my door and said, "[i]You[/i] go get the elevator." (Which we have one of in our house for my brother)...Not understanding, I asked, "Why?" And my dad replied, "Guilty...of murder."

It took a while for it to hit me, but when I actually woke up I realized that in my dream, my brother (who has no mental disabilities, just physical) was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death ...He's only 11 years old :cross:

Ah well...I just found it to be a rather disturbing dream...[/color]

[liamc2]

Well, the idea of killing the mentally retarded because of something they very well would not understand is wrong, seems very very stupid to me.
I know conditions vary depending on the mental handicaps, but I have been around a large variety of people with these handicaps. Many of them take a long time to know the difference between right and wrong, a very sad thing indeed.

But that aside, the death penalty is also stupid by itself

Killing a person that has taken many lives is the best thing you can do for them, think about it.

Would you rather live with the images of those you killed while imprisoned in some concrete hell for the rest of your life?

Or just end it all?

Just food for thougt. .