Gaming Xbox Live: Can it save the Xbox?

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Blackhawk [/i]
[B]
Oh my god I missed to 'u' I should be drug out in the street in shot!
[/quote][/b]

[color=royalblue]Heheh, I'm just saying that if you want to engage in a serious debate, you should at least learn how to spell correctly. ;)[/color][quote][b]


I still haven't seen an actual press release or anything else stating this. However if you really want I can get numerous articles from game mags and IGN and just about anyother site saying it will be totally 3rd party[/quote][/b]

[color=royalblue]I'm guessing that you [i]don't[/i] get very involved in gaming media at all.

Sony announced its initial online plans quite some time ago. I just assumed it was common knowledge -- apparently not.[/color][quote][b]



Quote from My post:
Ofcourse they have plans for the xbox 2 hell sony's had plans for the PS3 since the start of the ps2

Did I ever say they Weren't looking into the next gen xbox? nope I never said. I said There were focused on the xbox now. Ofcourse they're in the process of gearing up for the xbox 2 they do plan on staying in the industry or they would have never started it![/quote][/b]

[color=royalblue]Yeah, but your poorly-worded post gave me the distinct impression that you were totally dismissing the idea of Xbox being a launching pad for another machine.

I know for a fact that this is the case. Microsoft is of course focused on Xbox now, with the idea of using it as a springboard for HomeStation/Freon in the future. Read what I say clearly; it helps.[/color][quote][b]



Again another quote from my post:

Are they loosing money now? Ofcourse, with the expecption of the GC all Game system loose money at the start.

Did you even bother reading my post or just skim over it and pick out what you want?[/quote][/b]

[color=royalblue]I don't even know what you're trying to say here. I responded very clearly to what you had originally said -- and I pointed out exactly how and why Xbox/Xbox Live is/will lose money over the coming financial year.

If you want to dispute the Wall Street Journal on that, be my guest.[/color][quote][b]


In response to:

There will be enough people for MS to ATLEAST get it's lost down to millions hell go to GameSpy and see how many people are playing Halo. There is always atleast 400 people in there, atleast I've never seen less than that and I've been on pretty damn late.

You said


Do I even need a source logon to gamespy and see for yourself. That after all is the best kind of source.

Oh and seeing as I'm a NWA for a few local banks and oil industry professionals, A+ certified and about to complete my final test for my MCSE certification I know a hellva lot more about server cost and operations than you'll probably ever know! [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]I didn't say "Do I even need a source logon to gamespy and see for yourself. That after all is the best kind of source." and I don't even really know what relevance it has to the discussion -- it's horribly worded.

Heh, I'm guessing you included that last paragraph as a way of trying to deflect the fact that all of your points so far have been utterly wrong.

It's okay, I understand.

But considering that you seem to have no idea about the most basic fundamentals of online gaming as a business, I'm going to hope that you study very hard for that final test. :)

EDIT: When you are able to debate correctly (and not enter ridiculous emotive speech into the discussion), I'll let you return. Until then, I suggest that you read a dictionary and learn to string a sentence together.

[/color]

[Semjaza]

I don't get this. None of the good points made here by anyone were even addressed.

Just because MS CAN afford it, doesn't make it cheap. It's still eating away at their bottom line. It's fine to say that MS WILL make money, but you aren't saying HOW. Which I find strange considering how source hungry you were before.

[Chaos]

Well done James. And yes... I'd have to say that Blackhawk was making some idiotic comments...like disreguarding facts from a WSJ article...O-o;;;

In any case, I don't think XBOX Live will save MS this time. They're just too far behind. Not to mention that the titles for XBOX are third in a three-system race. I mean, I'm gonna pick Bloodwake over GTA3? Ugh... Right. In any case, I still think MS should pull out while they still have a quasi-good reputation.

Then again, I try to avoid the XBOX at all costs... But this topic was just too good to not post in.

Great job to The Gaming Godfather for a topic of actual brain stimuli!!

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SuperSayian [/i]
[B]Great job to The Gaming Godfather for a topic of actual brain stimuli!! [/B][/QUOTE]

lol, thanks Neil. :toothy:

Yeah, I'm sorry that my topic caused so much trouble. I just wanted to spark a little conversation in this forum. I had no way of anticipating that it would mutate into this....

[b][quote]In any case, I don't think XBOX Live will save MS this time. They're just too far behind. Not to mention that the titles for XBOX are third in a three-system race. I mean, I'm gonna pick Bloodwake over GTA3? Ugh... Right. In any case, I still think MS should pull out while they still have a quasi-good reputation.[/b][/quote]

Well, I don't think that Microsoft has to catch up with Sony. In fact, it'll be quite impossible in this particular console war. As stated, Microsoft is in this for the long haul and it is focusing on it's next platform. Microsoft is merely using the Xbox as a launch pad....

Plus, remember that the video game industry, as I have mentioned, has increased overall profits by a whopping twelve percent in the past year.

Third place can definitely be a profitible position for Microsoft to occupy.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]



Yeah, I'm sorry that my topic caused so much trouble. I just wanted to spark a little conversation in this forum. I had no idea that it would mutate into this....[/quote][/b]

[color=royalblue]It's okay. Not your fault. :)

I've removed the more objectionable posts...so that the discussion can hopefully continue. It's a good, in-depth discussion for the most part. :)[/color][quote][b]



Well, I don't think that Microsoft has to catch up with Sony. In fact, it'll be quite impossible in this particular console war. As stated, Microsoft is in this for the long haul and it is focusing on it's next platform. Microsoft is merely using the Xbox as a launch pad....[/quote][/b]

[color=royalblue]I'm glad [i]someone[/i] was reading what I said. :)

And yes, this is all about longterm strategy for Microsoft. It's not an excuse to bash the Xbox itself -- it's just a fact of life.[/color][quote][b]


Third place can definitely be a profitible position for Microsoft to occupy. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]That is definitely true (especially if Xbox Live [i]is[/i] a success).[/color]

[ZeroBlade]

Right now I welcome console games going online. There are great titles being released and I look forward to play them.

But right now I'm a little concerned with what James said. About Microsoft's Xbox being just a launch pad for the Xbox 2 (or "Homestation" if you will) then that just tells me that they aren't even supporting the Xbox itself. When I heard that Nintendo was acutally going to milk the GCN as much as they can and make 'new' types of games I was trilled. They're online game ideas is also good to me since that even Narrowband players can participate and hearing about Phantasy Star 1 and 2 having very little lag even with dial-ups is something that impresses me. Hearing that Microsoft is more focused with the future just reduses the faith I have in the Xbox itself. That is if they are making another console.... Is Microsoft going to use the current Xbox to go with their proposed online idea or is another console in works?

Ps2 and GCN I know are going with adapters but I'm not sure with Xbox.:confused:

[Semjaza]

Well Xbox Live is set to launch in like November, so of course Xbox itself is going to be using it. I'm sure Xbox 2 will make use of the network though, and since they are setting this all up now..Xbox 2 should be online ready right out of the box. No waiting another year when a Ethernet card is included lol.

[Charles]

I'm glad that this was brought up again. Upon starting this thread and getting into talk of the Homestation, one thing makes me laugh. Especially after reading that article.

When Microsoft first entered the console war they claimed that they were doing so with the pure interest in gaming. Essentially they were creating a [I]gaming[/I] machine for gamers. Xbox live would certainly cater to the gamers, but wouldn't the Homestation be breaching Microsoft's original promise?

The entire premise of the Homestation is to combine the capabilities of a Microsoft Ultimate TV, Windows Media player, a Microsoft Xbox, and a Microsoft WebTV. If this digital media hub were released with the intention of replacing multiple devices, I feel that Microsoft would be contradicting themselves. Oh well.

At any rate, as Semjaza Azazel pointed out, at least the road to online console gaming won't be so rocky in the next generation. :)

[Semjaza]

MS originally approached game developers to get support, and told them they were making a system that was kinda a set-top box, kinda a gaming machine. Of course no developer wanted in, as software wouldn't sell. So MS put the other stuff on the backburner, and made Xbox a gaming only machine. This was said by MS itself, and I read it at Gamespot quite a while back.

So really, I expect Homestation/Freon to be just this. It is rather strange though, because it makes me feel like MS lied to game makers all along.

[Schrat]

IM sorry but I think the [i]Xbox Live[/i] WIll doe a tragic death as did Sega net. I think Nintendo's online plans will reign high followed by Sony's

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]
When Microsoft first entered the console war they claimed that they were doing so with the pure interest in gaming. Essentially they were creating a [I]gaming[/I] machine for gamers. Xbox live would certainly cater to the gamers, but wouldn't the Homestation be breaching Microsoft's original promise?

The entire premise of the Homestation is to combine the capabilities of a Microsoft Ultimate TV, Windows Media player, a Microsoft Xbox, and a Microsoft WebTV. If this digital media hub were released with the intention of replacing multiple devices, I feel that Microsoft would be contradicting themselves. Oh well.

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]Microsoft's PR rhetoric and what it [i]actually[/i] does are two very different things.

Even though the legitimacy of the Xbox as a game console is arguable, I think we all agree that it is [i]essentially[/i] a gaming machine at its core.

Having said that, it is most definitely the precursor to HomeStation, as I've been saying. Microsoft understands that video games are a way of introducing non-gaming services into the lounge room.

It's a clever approach, if you consider the success of the game industry as well as the fact that games are probably the number one entertainment medium "in the lounge".

Still, it remains to be seen how successful the HomeStation can be, given the relative underperformance of Xbox so far.[/color]

[Letterman]

i hate to interject here, but not only is microsoft a late starter (and probably the largest $black hole EVER in the gaming world, but its wonderful plans for xbox 2 just dont hack it, we already have a home dvd recorder with a built in hard drive they are made by panasonic and can do all the normal things a hard disc recorder can do, not only that but our digital satellite tv system has exactly the same features too (its called sky plus) the japanese version of the gamecube made by panasonic called the Q is about to be replaced with a new model which also has all those hard drive features so just where is microsoft doing anything new, the new panasonic "Q" will be doing all that within 5 months not 3 more years as far as broadband is concerned its never fast enough, ok, at the moment it can just about cope with modern pc games but in 3 years it has no hope.

We have a hybrid system here that uses a 20mb/sec satellite connection for the downstream service and an 8mb/4mb dsl connection for upstream data and cover for when bad weather stops the satellite from working, i guess thats fast enough, but no current console will allow that kind of a connection so we will be limited to using an 8mb/4mb service as i said before, thats ok for now, but for the future, i dont think it will be fast enough for the amount of data that will need sending (especialy if companies are thinking of making games have to be downloaded to play them) i want to be able to put a disc in my console and play and i want to be able to play with my friends at home, if i want to do something online then thats why we have a pc. i'm afraid going broadband only is a mistake for microsoft at present and when there is enough people can afford broadband (and actualy get it) will it be fast enough, i know we pay around $600 a month for our service, but not everyone can afford that, having an option of 56k like nintendo and sony is a far more marketable idea as people can buy a new adaptor as and when they get broadband installed.

I'm sorry if my spelling isn't that good, i have dyslexia so spelling isnt always my strong point (nor is making sense ;))

Letterman

[James]

[color=royalblue]I don't see the relevance of the Panasonic Q in this discussion. First and foremost, the Q is only available in Japan (and is thus irrelevant to gamers outside that country, unless they import). And secondly, the GameCube is the primary format here. Panasonic may end up handling online in a completely different way from Nintendo, if it chooses to go online with Q at all.

You must also remember that whilst a new version of Q may come with a hard drive (even though I somewhat doubt this claim), the Nintendo GameCube will not have a hard drive built in. In order for developers to take advantage of that kind of technology, the technology has to be available in the first place. If the Q had a hard drive and the GameCube doesn't, then you're going to find absolutely no developers who will be making games that utilize a hard drive.

In the case of Xbox Live, I think we're seeing things coming together a lot more quickly now. I am much more confident in the success of Xbox Live (in terms of specific game franchises and ease of use), as opposed to the PlayStation 2 service, which is far more disorganized.

One of the great things about Xbox Live, in my opinion, is the active buddy list. You won't necessarily be joining games with totally unknown people -- the buddies on your list will appear every time they are online. And if they are playing a game, the buddy list will tell you what game they are playing. And you will have the option to join them/start a new game, etc...

I think that this is one of the vital ingredients in this kind of online network. And the fact that Microsoft's network is centralized (as opposed to being based on third party publishers), is a [i]huge[/i] asset. Perhaps not so much for larger developers, but for smaller developers the benefits of Xbox Live probably outweigh the benefits of PS2's online services.

Additionally, I support Microsoft's broadband only stance. Whilst it is arguable as to how fast this technology will be taken up by gamers (only about 25% of Europe is estimated to have access by 2005), it is necessary to use the appropriate technology to deliver the right kind of experience. In the case of Xbox Live, the broadband nature of the service indicates that you'll never (or rarely) experience slowdown/lag of any kind. And that is absolutely essential to an online console service.

Having said that, Phantasty Star Online Episode 1 & 2 for GameCube experiences almost 0% lag. All this, despite the fact that it is running on a 56k dial-up modem. And broadband users experience no noticeable slowdown when they play against people who use dial-up. So clearly, other factors are at work, irrespective of the actual connection speed.

At the end of the day, Xbox Live is the most advanced and most user-friendly online setup. So far, PlayStation 2 comes in second -- if only because Nintendo has not fully revealed its own plans.

However, there are strong suggestions that Nintendo EAD has been working internally on a number of online titles for several months now -- and that testing has been underway for a while. Nintendo has also hinted that its own first and second party games will be [i]free[/i] to play online and that without a centralized network, players will not be required to pay any monthly fees for access (other than what they may pay for a dial-up connection or a broadband connection).[/color]

[Letterman]

Sorry, the relevence of the new q (which was confirmed 2 weeks ago, its no longer stylish, but looks like a vcr:() was the tv recording functions that are set to appear on the xbox 2 in the future, its online functions will be the same as the standard cube.

The reason for the cubes ability to play pso online at 56k is simple, it was designed to run on a 36k modem for the dreamcast, so 56k is just enough extra speed to lose the lag that was associated with that title, xonline however is different, again as you said with an eye to the future, and to reduce costs to microsoft themselves there are plans to copy windows xp and steal some of your bandwidth this is to be used for some kind of distributed computing model where the xboxes that are online act as part of the main server, thus vastly increasing bandwidth requirements above what would normaly be required, hence the need for broadband connections only, the idea isn't new, sony are also planning a similar system with the ps3.

i'm sure xonline will be a success in the long term with xbox 2, but in order for it to happen microsoft will need to overcome consumer resistence to having to pay twice for a game and then pay again for a larger broadband connection so as not to interfere with any homes current internet usage.

This rush to play games online may just be a few years too early for people brought up on paying for a game then taking it home and playing it, now they will be buying part of a game (still at full price) taking it home, paying for an internet connection, paying for the xonline service to download patches and level upgrades then having to pay even more to play the game online, all this will need a credit card and a friendly (and rich) parent to pay all these extra costs, and that assumes that all countries are like america where most people have a credit card, europe and africa arent like that so how are people over here going to pay for all these services, in the united kingdom, a home user cant even get a dsl connection without having a credit card.

with that said, does that mean that xbox and xbox 2 will be consoles for adults only? Basicly pricing children out of the equation altogether.

[James]

[color=royalblue]I haven't seen any reports of the "new Q", so I'm somewhat reluctant to believe that claim. Especially since no relevant media sources have reported it. But if something comes out, it'll be interesting to see.

The reason PSO v1 & 2 works so well is primarily because of the infrastructure. Dedicated servers (and many of them) as well as a very clean and efficient programming code. Sonic Team itself has commented that these elements are necessary for a speedy online experience.

As far as the Xbox 2 (or Freon, as it's being labelled currently), I'm reluctant to offer much speculation. It's hard to predict how things will go, simply because right now it's too early to tell how this generation will play out in terms of online gaming.

And online gaming is the key word here. We're not talking about downloadable content in the future -- perhaps that is a discussion best left for another time. This thread is specifically about Xbox Live. And while it's possibly appropriate to consider the implications that a [i]successful[/i] Xbox Live might have in future...we must also remember that what we're talking about here is the take-up of online [i]games[/i], rather than any other services (such as downloadable movie content or recordable TV).[/color]

[Semjaza]

I've heard ot the new Q, but no real announcements. Eitherway, nothing the Q can do extra is used with gaming. The current Q can use 5.1 sound, but it doesn't do jack with GC games. The same will be true of the HD and whatever else is included in a new model.

I've never seen any shots of this model though. Panasonic did unveil new Blue Ray DVD drives, but so did like 15 other companies at a recent event in Japan. Most of which looked like a VCR as you said. None were referred to as Q though.

[James]

[color=royalblue]And that's my point, with reference to hard drives and such.

Panasonic could potentially add any feature it likes to Q. But that doesn't necessarily mean that GameCube games will utilize it -- GameCube games will primarily utilize whatever the actual GameCube console posesses in the first place.

I just wish Nintendo would get that SD Card Adapter out. The potential for SD Cards is so much greater than the potential with the Xbox hard drive.

With the SD Cards, it's basically a portable hard drive. If you download an entire track or something very large...you can [i]still[/i] take it over to your friend's house or copy it to another card, etc.

I guess Nintendo has had no need for SD Cards yet. But potentially, the use of SD Cards could be incredible when it comes to online gaming.[/color]

[Semjaza]

Just got an email... I'm accepted into the beta testing program. Too bad I don't have 50 bucks to get the Live kit, but I'll scrounge it up haha.

And according to journalists invited to Xbox Live bootcamps, MS can flag and pick out modded Xboxes. In fact, they went so far to say that Unreal Championship will be disabled on any Xbox that uses an Evolution mod.

[iggy]

i think the live package would boost the Xbox's popularaity majorly

[Blue Heaven]

Im accepted to be a beta tester :) and I got the 50 bucks. WEEEEE!!

[James]

[color=royalblue]I wonder if they'll have beta testing in Australia...I'm guessing they will. Though I haven't heard anything about the launch of Xbox Live here.

Still, I don't have an Xbox now anyway...but you never know, I might end up getting one before Xbox Live launches here.[/color]

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]
Still, I don't have an Xbox now anyway...but you never know, I might end up getting one before Xbox Live launches here.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

That is, unless Microsoft goes ahead with its plans to pull the system out of Australia because of all that mod chipping nonsense. O.o;;

[James]

[color=royalblue]I don't think Microsoft will pull the machine out of Australia. It wouldn't be a very wise decision on MS's part, given the importance of Australia to the Xbox (especially considering the horrible sales in Europe and Japan).[/color]

[Blue Heaven]

Well Xbox online is ALOT BETTER than I thought it would be. I suggest getting it when it comes out. I can't stop playing thats all I know. Oh and my gamer tag is T Man if you wanna play with me.

[Tommy Vercetti]

I hope Xbox Live is a success as i want to get it seeing as i have broadband and i like the idea of being able to talk to ppl online and discuss strategic battle plans and shout at people in racing games and when it is officially released in the Uk i will get it i hope.