Guest Voodookanaka Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 they found the first page of the bible!!! it said: [QUOTE]....Disclaimer: all persons within this book are completely fictional and any resemblence to any persons living or dead is purely coincidental........[/QUOTE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Desert Shadow [/i] [B] [b]Does that make rape an act of love?[/b] [/B][/QUOTE] God no.... Rape is done against someone's will... sexual intercourse is done between two people. Both consenting to the other.... There is a difference between SEX and RAPE.... they ARE NOT and NEVER will be the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari DeRoot Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Woah! There is a lot of confusion it sounds like. Lots of you have twisted the REAL TRUTH! So Lemme try and make some points clear. Most of my examples are stuff I got from C.S. Lewis's book Mere Christianity! Which proves why atheism is wrong. and Christianity makes sense. Great book please read it. Also make note that C.S. Lewis was once an atheist too. ;) But he converted to Anglican. (Church of England). Also Eg. from Catecism and religion class. First of all...there is ONE OVERALL TRUTH WITH A CAPITAL "T"!!. Without this there is chaos!! 2. Most of what was said in the posts is a HERESY!!! It is called Modernism and it is KILLING OUR SOCIETY!! Modernism basically is the teaching that religion is anything ya want it to be. Wrongo!! There's that Capital "T" truth there. 3. Look around at Creation, galaxy, etc. Such things could not have happened by chance. The perfect biological conditions of earth...that happening again...huge odds!! Scientist even think there had to be some source. Can get something from nothing. 4. PPL in groups act stupidly. Individually we are geniuses. Also, man is not perfect...if ya haven't noticed...so duh the church is gonna mess up. There's been a lotta corrupt Popes. But that's because...God doesn't interfere with our free-will. 5. There IS a heaven...AND THERE IS A HELL!!! Earth is not hell...it is like an exile from God and our REAL HOME. Earth is not our home...eternal bliss...with love forevah evah evah! Hell is eternal seperation from God. No love. It is real...don't wait till it's too late! America has really screwed up religion and human spirituality. It does matter. PPL need to be organized...that's why we have churches and gov'ts. Don't fall into that passive oh don't know don't care crap. Seek God...how?? You can ask for help...I'm super glad to answer any questions. You can PM me. Or go to my page [URL=http://www.geocities.com/flikgirl_2000/jesus.htm]Mari's Spirit Page[/URL] or one of my links. I know what I'm talking about...I've studied this for ten years...both in school, church, and at home and on my own free time. I apologize to those who have had bad experiences with the church...I've had my share. (My Youth Group is so preachy). But don't feel proud and think you are better. For the proud shall be humbled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mari DeRoot [/i] [B] 5. There IS a heaven...AND THERE IS A HELL!!! Earth is not hell...it is like an exile from God and our REAL HOME. Earth is not our home...eternal bliss...with love forevah evah evah! Hell is eternal seperation from God. No love. It is real...don't wait till it's too late! [/B][/QUOTE] If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell it cannot exist to that person. I DO NOT believe there is a hell and a heaven as so thought so by many christians. I do think there is a better place, but I don't call it heaven and I don't think it has much resemblance to the heaven we think of today... You said there is one Truth out there..... That I will believe. Is it the christian belief? No.... Is it any of the magor religious beliefs? No.... Thats what I believe. I also believe the truth is something no one knows... and no one will ever know till they die. I don't even think religion has anything to do with the truth. You said it yourself man is not prefect thus the church could have screwed up.... I believe you there again, but in a different manner... I believe man couldn't live without faith, thus created it this believe so that it had faith. I think they are all created. All religions were this way. People didn't like one religion, so they created their own, thus making the more religions we have today. Anyone's views on religion aren't correct. They are opinions, and because God has not been proven to exists, they are simply beliefs. It's not prooven that Christianity is the right religion, it's believed that by Christians. It's not prooven there is a heaven and hell, it's believed. There IS NO PROOF, thus nothing can be fact, and EVERYTHING is Opinion. And not everyone has the same opinions. And not one opinion is correct, and not one opinion is wrong. Thats the concept of belief! If only everyone realized that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari DeRoot Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Found a site with some answers about many of the topics brought up... click one for answers [URL=http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/scripture.htm]Scripture/Bible[/URL] [URL=http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/god.htm]Is God Real?[/URL] [URL=http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/morals.htm]Homosexuality/Morals[/URL] [URL=http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/church.htm]Church[/URL] Some are articles...others are radio tracks ya just listen to. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Well, I've not really read Mere Christianity... I mean to... it's on a bookshelf somewhere.... But I really do love [I]The Chronicles of Narnia[/I] and the Space Trilogy. ([I]Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength[/I].) They are all very good books--regardless of your views on religion--and I urge anyone who hasn't to read them. On another note, Has anyone here read the [i]Ishmael[/i] saga, by...uh...Daniel Quinn? [i]Very[/i] interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Personally, I hate talking about religion. Right now, I don't have one. Please forgive my oppinions, but I see religion as a waste of time and as an obstacle. It is not always that way, but that's the gist of it. Religion... just doesn't matter to me. A lot of the things that they say are all well and good, but (Being an Ex-Christian) there's too much ritual and such. I can't stand Mass. Stand around listen to people talk when I could be reading, writing or drawing? Here's something I always wondered about though... Muslims, Lutheran Chatholics, Orthodox Chatholics, Jews, etcetera, all worship the same God! So WHAT THE HECK WERE THEY THINKING when people go into Holy Wars in the name of thier religion?! All of the above Religions worship the same God, but in different ways and manners. They all start back before Jesus arrived/supposedly arrived. They all have the same roots, so it's the same God! Do they think God will be happy that His followers are killing each other in His name? The answer should be obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Alexander [/i] [B]The answer should be obvious. [/B][/QUOTE] [B]Should[/B] be. But the truth is.....::shrugs:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Alexander [/i] [B]Personally, I hate talking about religion. Right now, I don't have one. Please forgive my oppinions, but I see religion as a waste of time and as an obstacle. It is not always that way, but that's the gist of it. Religion... just doesn't matter to me. A lot of the things that they say are all well and good, but (Being an Ex-Christian) there's too much ritual and such. I can't stand Mass. Stand around listen to people talk when I could be reading, writing or drawing? Here's something I always wondered about though... Muslims, Lutheran Chatholics, Orthodox Chatholics, Jews, etcetera, all worship the same God! So WHAT THE HECK WERE THEY THINKING when people go into Holy Wars in the name of thier religion?! All of the above Religions worship the same God, but in different ways and manners. They all start back before Jesus arrived/supposedly arrived. They all have the same roots, so it's the same God! Do they think God will be happy that His followers are killing each other in His name? The answer should be obvious. [/B][/QUOTE] Thank Kami-sama! Someone else who has the basically same videw as me. ::gives you lollipops and chocolates:: :) I precieve religion to be a waste of time. I do think you need faith, everyone needs faith, but why not put that faith in yourself? Stop hiding behind a book and do what YOU think is right and what you feel is right. The more I hear Christians trying to tell me what I think is wrong the more I can't stand them. I'm no telling them they are wrong, I'm telling them, that what they think doesn't apply to everyone, like me! I don't need to look to some books for answers. Why am I bisexual? Because I am.... I was born this way no matter what any of you straight people say. Why don't I believe in god, why don't aI agree with most things in the bible? Those questions can't be answered by a book. I can answer them though. Because I put faith in myself, and my decisions. That, to me, is good enough if not better than ANY religion. I just don't like people telling me what I should do and what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with me, fine, but don't EVER tell me I'm wrong. And I will and never have told anyone that their religion is wrong, I'd appreciate the respect back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJ5 Vegeta Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Believe in whatever you want to. No one has a right to tell you it's wrong. If they do then they can go fuk off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conpiracymonki Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Desert Shadow [/i] [B] [b]It's Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me." Thats where the no idol thing came from. There are other places too. It basically says not to have any other gods... Jesus is God, so "before me" in the verse means no other ones, and He is the one.[/b] [/B][/QUOTE] [b] But Jesus AS never said he was God! He said something about him being inside God, and God being inside him,..but he also said somewhere else that the deciples were also inside him and God, and vice versa,...so...Holy Fifteenity? I don't think so...(Sorry if that sounds offensive,..I'll try rewording it, ie; I'll edit this post, when I know how to reword this better) And didn't Paul/Saul (I forgot his name) explain the Trinity Doctrine first? And the Original Sin thing? And the Divinity of Jesus AS? Ignore me if you like, but I think Paul wanted to screw up Christianity in a way better than just plain torturing them (I heard he was a pagan...[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari DeRoot Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE]Anyone's views on religion aren't correct. They are opinions...[/QUOTE] That's modernism...you could say Nothing is fact. Anything can be an opinion. Then were'd we be? Back at the beginning chaos!! My opinion could be Gundam Wing doesn't exsist. But you say there's proof. What...I've never seen it. (erk...bad eg.) But the truth is...it does exsist. I can only use physical examples to illustrate my point here. :wigout: ooo! I've read the space trilogy! Well the first two. I luved them!! ^_^ Also...Mere Christianity is a little difficult to understand...'cuz he's british. And some of his points on evoluntion are outdated. ;) Religion is something worth talking about. It makes ppl uncomfy cuz there afraid. Try some of my suggested links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conpiracymonki Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Alexander [/i] [B]Muslims, Lutheran Chatholics, Orthodox Chatholics, Jews, etcetera, all worship the same God! So WHAT THE HECK WERE THEY THINKING when people go into Holy Wars in the name of thier religion?! All of the above Religions worship the same God, but in different ways and manners. They all start back before Jesus arrived/supposedly arrived. They all have the same roots, so it's the same God! Do they think God will be happy that His followers are killing each other in His name? The answer should be obvious. [/B][/QUOTE] [b]We basically see it as this: Jews went astray, so another Prophet was sent down amongst them. This was Jesus AS. So, the Christians are the 'heir's of Jews in religion... Christians went astray after a while, so Muhammad SAW was sent down afterwards to guide them. So,..Muslims are in the same way heirs to Jews, and Christians... And when people go around doing Jihaad, or Crusade or whatever,..it's usually to protect their religion, not to attack for no reason or conquer others..[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B] Thank Kami-sama! Someone else who has the basically same videw as me. ::gives you lollipops and chocolates:: :) I precieve religion to be a waste of time. I do think you need faith, everyone needs faith, but why not put that faith in yourself? Stop hiding behind a book and do what YOU think is right and what you feel is right. The more I hear Christians trying to tell me what I think is wrong the more I can't stand them. I'm no telling them they are wrong, I'm telling them, that what they think doesn't apply to everyone, like me! I don't need to look to some books for answers. Why am I bisexual? Because I am.... I was born this way no matter what any of you straight people say. Why don't I believe in god, why don't aI agree with most things in the bible? Those questions can't be answered by a book. I can answer them though. Because I put faith in myself, and my decisions. That, to me, is good enough if not better than ANY religion. I just don't like people telling me what I should do and what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with me, fine, but don't EVER tell me I'm wrong. And I will and never have told anyone that their religion is wrong, I'd appreciate the respect back [/B][/QUOTE] Hurrah! Someone else who agrees! *does a happy little dance* Another thing I find rather anoying is the Churches' tendency to condemn things on the basis of religion. That is stupid, in my opinion. What if a person were to 'unlock' some greater ability we've had all along but never need able to use? Some Churches might call the new power Unholy even if it's perfectly fine. Grrrr.... Here's something else I was wondering about.... Christians say that God created the universe. Scientists say that the Big Bang created the universe. Couldn't both be true? What if God used His powers to start the big bang, thereby creating the universe that He rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AJ2K1 4 Life [/i] [B] And when people go around doing Jihaad, or Crusade or whatever,..it's usually to protect their religion, not to attack for no reason or conquer others..[/B][/QUOTE] But they still worship the same god! If they indeed 'inherit' the religion from the previous one, they still obey the same one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conpiracymonki Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Alexander [/i] [B]Here's something else I was wondering about.... Christians say that God created the universe. Scientists say that the Big Bang created the universe. Couldn't both be true? What if God used His powers to start the big bang, thereby creating the universe that He rules? [/B][/QUOTE] [b]Dang true! That's what I think anyway.. The Qur-aan says that the skies are ever-expanding...so..if you trace time back..obviously, it had to've grown from something,..to expand. So, if the Big Bang happened,..then everything would expand, right? So the Big Bang could've been God's Creation too. I've explained it funny, right? Thought so,...meh,..it'sthe best I can do..[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zanza Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B]If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell it cannot exist to that person.[/B][/QUOTE] So what if I didn't believe ice cream existed? It disappears? Precisely. If I happened to be a very devoted Christian all my life, and then, say, it turns out some [i]other[/i] religion was right, I would still suffer it's consequences even though I didn't believe in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mari DeRoot [/i] [B] That's modernism...you could say Nothing is fact. Anything can be an opinion. Then were'd we be? Back at the beginning chaos!! My opinion could be Gundam Wing doesn't exsist. But you say there's proof. What...I've never seen it. (erk...bad eg.) But the truth is...it does exsist. I can only use physical examples to illustrate my point here. :wigout: ooo! I've read the space trilogy! Well the first two. I luved them!! ^_^ Also...Mere Christianity is a little difficult to understand...'cuz he's british. And some of his points on evoluntion are outdated. ;) Religion is something worth talking about. It makes ppl uncomfy cuz there afraid. Try some of my suggested links. [/B][/QUOTE] If thats the way you wanna see it. I am a modernist. I live in the modern age. I study and enjoy the technology advancements in our modern society. There is proof Gundam Wing exists... I've seen it... multiple times on TV. I have the Japanese versions of the show at my house.. right here, on tape :: points to them:: However I don't have god looked inside some little box that i can point to... There is a difference... science can proove things, religion cannot. Religion is based off of Beliefs and beliefs are mearly opinions because there are two things in this world. Facts and Opinions, and if it's not a fact, BINGO! Sure it's a fact that religion exists, but it's not a fact that God exists. It's not a fact that Jesus was the son of god.... it's all a belief.... a belief you have the right to believe in and a belief I have the right to NOT belief in. And just because one or all of you say it's correct, doesn't mean a d@mn thing to me cause I've been wrong in the past and as far as I know, you could be wrong too. I'll belief what i want to belief and I don't want anyone to say I'm wrong, or I'm modern or any of that other BS. I give you the respect you want.... I don't tell you it's wrong for you to believe in god. I'm just saying it's hard for me to believe something not prooven real. I don't like talking about religion because people try to tell me whats right or wrong. I'm not affraid.... what am I to be affraid of? Someone that doesn't exist to me the same way he/she exists to you? I have nothing to fear but fear itself... and stupid ignorant people.... I would click your links but they will probably just make me more pissed at Christianity. I'm Bisexual and I'm in a homosexual relationship with my boyfriend. I don't want some book telling me thats wrong.... I don't want to be Christian again... Just accept that and stop telling me whats right and whats wrong (That goes for all Christains, Hindus, Buddhist, Jewish, etc.) You'll believe what you'll believe and I'll believe what I believe.... and thats all there is to it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zanza [/i] [B] So what if I didn't believe ice cream existed? It disappears? Precisely. If I happened to be a very devoted Christian all my life, and then, say, it turns out some [i]other[/i] religion was right, I would still suffer it's consequences even though I didn't believe in them. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=darkblue]Yes, but you can't compare the two. "Hell" is something created by religion -- it is simply not a proven fact of life. Whereas ice cream is a proven fact. Religion, for the most part, isn't about fact (especially if you look at creationism, which is just plain rubbish). It's more about a frame of mind. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarkElf Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 :devil: :flaming: :devil: :flaming: :devil: :flaming: :devil: :flaming: All organized religion is a farce........If you choose to believe in an 'almighty creator' , then by all means, believe, just don't go trying to convert me if I don't want to believe........ Now, answer me this.............and be sure to elaborate............. Was man made in the inamge of 'god'? Or was 'god' made in the image of man as someone to be a scapegoat when thigs happen that we cannot explain? (the devil also falls under this latter question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i] [B][color=darkblue]Yes, but you can't compare the two. "Hell" is something created by religion -- it is simply not a proven fact of life. Whereas ice cream is a proven fact. Religion, for the most part, isn't about fact (especially if you look at creationism, which is just plain rubbish). It's more about a frame of mind. [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]Point One: I believe in that rubbish. I respect your views, please refrain from calling mine garbage.... Point Two: Whatever your belief as to the beginning of the world, it is a "religion." Don't tell me that evolution and the Big Bang theory are scientific. Scientific theories and laws must be able to be duplicated and observed. You cannot observe the Big Bang Theory in a lab, it cannot be duplicated and tested. The same goes for evolution, and special creation. Point Three: The words "ice cream is a proven fact" sound bloody funny when taken out of context. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Cera [/i] [B]Point Two: Whatever your belief as to the beginning of the world, it is a "religion." Don't tell me that evolution and the Big Bang theory are scientific. Scientific theories and laws must be able to be duplicated and observed. You cannot observe the Big Bang Theory in a lab, it cannot be duplicated and tested. The same goes for evolution, and special creation. [/B][/QUOTE] Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word theory... A theory cannot be duplicated because it's a THEORY! A mere opinion.... not a fact, there is no experimenting before theory. The Scientific Method states that one has a theory, one observes, one then acts on that and experiments... A theory is just a thought and the Big Band Theory is just that.... The same goes for evolution :) It's all theorys.... in fact one can say religion is a theory, cause technically it is... it hasn't been prooven, and it's just basically an opinion of someone or a group of people.... so technically it does fall into the category of theory, but more so in the category of belief... which are fairly similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B] Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word theory... A theory cannot be duplicated because it's a THEORY! A mere opinion.... not a fact, there is no experimenting before theory. The Scientific Method states that one has a theory, one observes, one then acts on that and experiments... A theory is just a thought and the Big Band Theory is just that.... The same goes for evolution :) It's all theorys.... in fact one can say religion is a theory, cause technically it is... it hasn't been prooven, and it's just basically an opinion of someone or a group of people.... so technically it does fall into the category of theory, but more so in the category of belief... which are fairly similar. [/B][/QUOTE] Yeh, my science teacher has a different definition for it, and I gotta learn it or I'm gonna fail. ;) As for the rest, isn't that what I just said? Evolution, Big Bang Theory, Special creation...all beliefs that can't be proven. Ya gotta have a heck of a lot of faith to believe any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Cera [/i] [B] Yeh, my science teacher has a different definition for it, and I gotta learn it or I'm gonna fail. ;) As for the rest, isn't that what I just said? Evolution, Big Bang Theory, Special creation...all beliefs that can't be proven. Ya gotta have a heck of a lot of faith to believe any of them. [/B][/QUOTE] But you said "Scientific theories and laws must be able to be duplicated and observed"... which is false, besides the law part... so now you have officially confused me.... Scientific theories can't be duplicated and can't be observed.... I'm sill confused so me gonne not talk no more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 Forget the theory part...it's just something I threw in there because of the definition my current science teacher is making us learn... I know they aren't the same... Just forget the theory part.... You're confusing me, now, too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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