Suicide?

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]If you really want to commit suicide, dont tell anyone, and just do it. Otherwise, like me, they'll put you on antidepressents and crap like that.

There is no sin in Self murder, but others want to stop you for stupid reasons. Just do it before anyone tries to 'help' and end up hurting you more -__-

-K[/color]

[Amphion]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathKnight [/i]
[B][color=crimson]If you really want to commit suicide, dont tell anyone, and just do it. Otherwise, like me, they'll put you on antidepressents and crap like that.

There is no sin in Self murder, but others want to stop you for stupid reasons. Just do it before anyone tries to 'help' and end up hurting you more -__-

-K[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]


Well it depends on what you beleive. I know alot of religions beleive self murder is a sin, just like a murder of someone else. They beleive the body is a temple, and you shouldnt destroy a temple. But some religions beleive as long as it is in the name of religion its okay. I guess if you are aetheist or agnostic, it becomes an issue of morality.

[khips01]

yeah i have alota problems at home with my parents .. much like a typical teenager xecpt some things that shouldnt happen do in my house and sometimes i cant take it anymore, ive thought of the idea many times over and over again but never had the guts to go through with it. i think most ppl have had the though cross there mind at some point in there life and if they havent probly will.

[Char!]

[color=teal][size=1][b]I've been through tough sh*t before, but nothing has ever been so bad that it's worth ending your life.

That's really all you need to say to yourself I guess, that nothing is so bad that you need to kill yourself.

Works for me; I'm happy as a non-suicidal clam! (whoa, little hyper-like there, calm down Char...)


--Mike[/b][/size][/color]

[Angelus_Necare]

yeesh, this brings back memories....

A few years back I tried to end my life for reasons I'd rather keep to myself. I was just unhappy with life, and I got help before it became worse. Now I realized that what I tried to do was foolish and selfish. I'm much more optimistic now, and a lot happier.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i]
[B][COLOR=darkblue]

but i think "attention-getters" is a rather harsh term (even though that is essentially what they are). many people do it out of desperation, as a way of expressing to their loved ones how much pain they're in, either as a cry for help, or to be vindictive. either way, i hope those people get the help they need.[/COLOR] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]Of course there are people who really do need help if they are suicidal.

But a lot of the time, people suicide because of their own selfish reasons. I think suicide is a selfish act because it totally disregards the feelings of those around you.

As I've said before...my uncle committed suicide last year. And if you ask [i]anyone[/i] in my family about it, they'll tell you one thing; it was nothing but a pathetic, selfish, attention seeking exercise.

Now of course, I'm not willing to paint everyone with the same brush here. I don't for one moment believe that [i]every[/i] suicidal person has the same things going through their mind.

People who are mentally unstable need help. It's as simple as that.

But people who [i]are[/i] mentally stable...and who consciously know what is going on, are people whom I have very little respect for in this situation. [/color]

[wrist cutter]

I still think that's a rather harsh way to look at suicidal people - but I guess this is just a difference in views.

I totally agree that most suicidal people commit their act because they want attention... but just calling them "attention-getters" doesn't really seem right. It places them in a group of lots of other people who aren't suicidal at all.

Anyway, yeah, suicide is selfish... but not everybody is the same. I hate to condemn people for committing suicide.... mainly because I really don't know exactly what's going through their mind. We don't always know everything that goes on with a person... so when we think we know why they killed themself, it could always be a totally different thing.

[Rancid]

[COLOR=sienna]I have never thought of killing myself nore will I in the near future. Sometimes I lay in bed and think of death, it scares me but we all have to go sometimes.[/COLOR]

[Pastbyer]

[color=indigo]Suicide? I've never really thought about it that much. Even if I am unhappy with life I've learned to live with it and accept the fact that life is not fair and it'll never be.

I don't like to stereotype and condemn people but I sort of know why some people would want to kill themselves. You have good days and you have bad days, but for some people the bad days are always there and they can't seem to get out of it. It's a horrible feeling of pressure that drives you mad (believe me, I know).

But the people who kill themselves just to be noticed are selfish (no offence to anyone). Because, one, you're hurting the ones that you love and care about. And two, how can you receive the attention if you're dead? It's a simple concept really.

Like I said before, some people commit suicide because they are really upset, they're the ones that we should look out for and try to help.

So, that's my opinion anyway.[/color]

[James]

[color=royalblue]Of course, I was never implying that [i]all[/i] suicidal people are just attention seekers.

Most are. Some aren't.

Few people among those who you might call "suicidal" actually go through with it. And in my experience, people who constantly [i]talk[/i] about being suicidal are the ones who are actually the attention seekers.

It's people who [i]don't[/i] share their feelings that are the problem. In reality, a [i]truly[/i] suicidal person is hardly noticeable to the average person. Usually, their pain is locked away and they often refuse (or are mentally unable) to ask for help.

So, people who are sitting here referring to their own suicidal experiences...many of them are attention seeking. And by the tone of some of the posts here, I'm sure you can tell [i]who[/i] is attention seeking more than anything else.

So yeah, there is a distinction. I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush...people [i]are[/i] different and everyone is an individual. And everyone has different reasons for doing different things.

In the case of suicide though, as I said...people who readily talk about it to people tend to be those who are least likely to actually act on it. The truly disturbed/suffering people are the ones who do their best to hide their pain from others (which also makes the pain worse...which is why, if possible, it's so important to look for the subtle symptoms of severe depression and detect them as quickly as possible).[/color]

[wrist cutter]

OK, I see now. I fully agree to all of that.

[Mnemolth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]Of course, I was never implying that [i]all[/i] suicidal people are just attention seekers.

Most are. Some aren't.

Few people among those who you might call "suicidal" actually go through with it. And in my experience, people who constantly [i]talk[/i] about being suicidal are the ones who are actually the attention seekers.

It's people who [i]don't[/i] share their feelings that are the problem. In reality, a [i]truly[/i] suicidal person is hardly noticeable to the average person. Usually, their pain is locked away and they often refuse (or are mentally unable) to ask for help.

So, people who are sitting here referring to their own suicidal experiences...many of them are attention seeking. And by the tone of some of the posts here, I'm sure you can tell [i]who[/i] is attention seeking more than anything else.

So yeah, there is a distinction. I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush...people [i]are[/i] different and everyone is an individual. And everyone has different reasons for doing different things.

In the case of suicide though, as I said...people who readily talk about it to people tend to be those who are least likely to actually act on it. The truly disturbed/suffering people are the ones who do their best to hide their pain from others (which also makes the pain worse...which is why, if possible, it's so important to look for the subtle symptoms of severe depression and detect them as quickly as possible).[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Okay. Here's my opinion, and what I was trying to get at in my earlier post.

[b]1.[/b]

There are people out there that, for whatever reasons, kill themselves. From the severely depressed and frustrated teenager, to the failed Japanese businessman, to the terminally ill cancer patient.

These are the so-called 'serious' folk. Their attempts are 'real' in the sense that they DO want to die. Not surprisingly, these are the people most likely to succeed.

You can call them cowards for no sticking it out. You can call them selfish for leaving their loved ones behind to deal with the mess. I would call them neither of those things because I am not in a position to judge them.

[b]2.[/b]

There are people out there that hurt themselves or threaten suicide in order to draw attention to themselves for one reason or another. They might hate themselves, they might hate their parents and family, they might hurt themselves as a way to hurt those they feel have hurt them, or it might just be a desparate cry for help. These people come in two groups, the self-mutilaters, and those that threaten suicide. I'm not sure about the link between those two groups but I'd speculate there is some sort of connection.

Self-mutilaters are those that cut themselves, or do other things 'd prefer not to mention here, nasty horrible things to their bodies. Since we're talking about suicides I'll neglect this group for now.

The there are those who threaten/attempt suicide. The second group actually will take some action. But they don't really want to die. Consciously or subconsciously, they will set things up so that there is a good chance that someone will stop/save them. This is your typical wrist-cutter. Sometimes things will get out of hand, and by chance or lack thereof, some of these attemts will be successful. But very rare. What is more common is that if their cries for help are not heard, some in this group may move to the 1) category, and become dead serious. Most will not, they will simply sink into an abyss of psychological and physical hell. Inertia will drive them.

Now, its clear these people are 'attention-seekers'. They do want to draw attention to themselves. The have no 'real' desire to die as such.

But I would not label them 'attention-seekers' and dismiss them as such because whatever their state of mind, I feel their pain is real. Just because they do not want to die does not make their pain any less real. As I said before, you must be in some kind of hell to feel that the only form of expression available to you to hurt yourself.

Of course these people need to be approached with care, you don't want to encourage this situation or their psychosis or dependence. For that kind of care I'll leave to the professionals.

[b]3.[/b]

These are the those who talk about suicide. Some of this group may progress to category 2), but many will not. These people usually do not act upon their 'talk'. But they do fantasize about their own deaths and what impact it would have.

Now clearly these people are not going to kill themselves, in fact, they are not even likely to ATTEMPT to kill themselves. They are just depressed, or in a rut, or just want some attention.

Would I then label this group 'attention-seekers'? Well, the label seems to fit pretty well. But no. I would not do so.

Why?

Beacuse these people too would have some psychological problems. And those problems are real. Now, they are not life-threatening, but they do reduce the 'quality' of life of the person and what he or she can achieve.

These people also need professional help, but moreover, they just need SOME help, ANY help. Someone to take an interest in them and help make them better. A lot of them just need love, and to feel loved.


As I said I would not label category 2) and 3) as 'attention-seekers' and dismiss them as such, but that is NOT to say that I would, if I met them and were dealing with them, appease them completely. As I also said above, you don't want to encourage this kind of behaviour by rewarding it, you want to lift these people from this dependency, not accommodate them in it! But its a fine balancing act to maintain and you need to know the person pretty well to do it right.

If the person was a friend or family member of mine, and I wanted to help, I would understand it would actually take time and effort on my part. Its not a simple matter of me telling them to 'wake up' as it were, one needs to actually show them how as well.

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]This is your typical wrist-cutter. [/B][/QUOTE]

Interesting way to put it...

Anyway, very nice post Mnemolth, that's basically what I was saying but condensed into a smaller space.

I'm sure James would agree...

[James]

[color=royalblue]Yeah, I do basically agree with that.

When I talk about attention seekers, I'm not saying that these people don't feel legitimate pain. Nor am I saying that they should just be dismissed or ignored.

I'm saying that their motivation is different from those who actually kill themselves.

Their motivation is to attract attention to themselves. They might do it out of loneliness...boredom...fear...any number of different reasons.

And there are different kinds of attention seekers also. There are people (like many in this very thread) who are merely doing it in order to gain sympathy and attention from those around them.

And then there are some who [i]do[/i] suffer from legitimate psychological issues...and they are trying to get attention to satisfy a particular need (as I said, it might be loneliness or fear or whatever else).

So, once again...I'm not trying to paint everyone with the same brush. I'm saying that most people who constantly discuss suicide are seeking some sort of attention.

I am not naive enough to necessarily put [i]everyone[/i] in this category. And for those who do have true psychological problems, obviously, they all have different problems and different levels of depression.

Furthermore, I'm not suggesting that the solution is for people to merely "wake up". And I don't believe I ever implied such a measure.

I'm saying that for those who are merely talking about suicide in order to gain attention...those are people who need to find other ways of dealing with their problems. Even if they have no intention of committing suicide, they still obviously have a problem in the sense that they are [i]trying[/i] to gain attention through their fake claims. So even though they might be a less serious case...they are still a case nonetheless.

In any event, I think people who are truly suicidal must also understand that their suicide might be "a way out" for them...but it is a direct attack on their family and friends. So, that is why I get annoyed at people who flippantly talk about suicide as though they have had a real experience..."Oh yeah, I was going to...but I didn't" etc...

People who [i]do[/i] talk about it in those terms are the same people who [i]aren't[/i] going to do it...and who are treating it more flippantly than you or I. Those are the attention seekers...and those are the people who need to find other, more constructive ways of getting attention.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

Yay, we're all in agreement, no more need for long useless posts.