Closed threads

[MathGuy2]

I've been noticing something. When a moderator closes a thread, it's normally because he/she feels that the topic does not need to be discussed. So why aren't the threads deleted from the forum? Many times, the last post from the moderator says "This topic is just taking up space". In addition, I have sometimes entered a thread, not noticing the closed-lock icon, prepared to enter the discussion, and find that the thread has been closed.

I strongly believe that threads that are closed when there are barely any or no replies should be removed from the forum.

[ShadowDragon]

I think they keep them to use as an example. Say, I was looking around and I noticed a favorites topic was closed. I would know not to post them. ;)

[zidane11]

Another thing that they usually mean when they say that is that there is already a thread pertaining to that topic. No one wants to of the same kind of thread. Besides, all the moderators earned there position so they should know what is and isn't appropiate for the boards.

[Juu]

[color=deeppink] [size=1]Exactly. I think this has been discussed before. *ahem* anyway... They keep it so the newbies/members.. etc, know what kinds of posts not to discuss, and to see what is considered spam. simple. :D[/color] [/size]

[Guest SunRiZe]

and also to show the idiocy of the posters not following rules, or checking for pre existing topics, yah.

[Sandy]

Gah, do people really need THAT many examples? I don't think so...

Me, too, think that deleting would be the best way. You can't even delete the thread you started and that was closed yourself. Why?

Remember kids, that we do not live in the Middle Ages anymore, we do not need shame-punishments.

And if it's the space that is the problem, wouldn't deleting be just the right answer?

What would be a good change would be that moderators would unsharpen up their stingy tongues and actually close threads in NICE WORDS. Nobody want's rude and/or ignorant replies, no matter how crappy their attempt for a thread would be. (This also concerns you, James :therock: )

All I want to say, that being a mod doesn't mean one has to be a *****.

[James]

[color=royalblue]I don't think anyone is being rude or ignorant, Sage.

Moderators are members too. You must remember that.

I've already explained why many of these threads are left there. Many closed threads are also deleted, but some are retained.

We are not trying to "shame" people at all, we are merely providing examples of what [i]not[/i] to post. It's mostly common sense and sometimes it surprises me that people either don't read the rules or simply don't practice common sense.

So, Sage, I think you need to take some of your own advice. I don't like your tone here at all. All I see here is useless bitching, frankly.

If you have something constructive and worthwhile to offer, I'm all ears. Until then, I recommend that you don't offer comment.[/color]

[Break]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sage [/i]
[B]I want to say, that being a mod doesn't mean one has to be a *****. [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=green]And I would like to say that you being a member doesn't mean you can take advantage of what the staff here give you and then ***** about us.

Pathetic.[/size][/color]

[James]

[color=royalblue]Look, I don't want to shame anyone or anything like that.

I think the main reason sage is behaving this way is because I moved that thread from Digimon.

The thing is, his overreaction is way too harsh. I was only applying the rules that have been in place for who knows how long. Hell, even in [i]version 1[/i] it was obvious that you don't post the wrong thread in the wrong forum.

I think sage has to realize two things here.

First, both myself and all the other staff take time out of our lives to actually moderate this site. It takes time and effort -- and we all have to deal with the occasional annoying member. This is something that sage never has to deal with. He doesn't have that responsibility.

Second, it's not as though I deleted anything that shouldn't have been deleted. People are still allowed to write their fanfics and such, as long as they keep fanfics in the fan fiction area. I mean come on people...how hard is that? Are people unable to click a different link on the page?

Considering the [i]hours[/i] of work I have put into this site...I think it's a very small thing to ask that the most basic of rules be followed by members.

And then when I get this sort of thing thrown back in my face...well, it's dissappointing. Not to mention ungrateful.

What would happen if the boards were not here tomorrow? What would happen if we had shut down the site entirely because of our server troubles in August?

Isn't it better to be at a site that has rules...than to not be here at all?

Sometimes I think some people are too busy whining about tiny little things that disturb their little selfish universe...that they forget all the other elements I talked about.[/color]

[Break]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]First, both myself and all the other staff take time out of our lives to actually moderate this site. It takes time and effort -- and we all have to deal with the occasional annoying member. This is something that sage never has to deal with. He doesn't have that responsibility.[/color][/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=green]Yeah, that is true. What would you do if there were suddenly no staff, who would you go running to about spammers?

We all play a major part in this site, hell, the "common members" as you call yourself sage, are one of the most important things. Without members, what point is there having a site?

Just remember what the staff do for you next time you want a rant and think about what you're going to say.[/size][/color]

[KittyLynn]

Yah Break I agree, without us there wouldn't be a site, all the moderators and admins and others are trying to make this a happy place for US...

They spend hours on this site and we should be thankful for that.

[MathGuy2]

Wait, that's not what I said. I didn't complain about closing the thread, I was just expressing my disapproval about not being able to participate in the "Grill the Christian" thread.
I have no complaint whatsoever if it or any thread were closed. I only don't like the disappointment at seeing "Sorry, because of x reason I believe this thread is closed".
Moderators are good people. Without moderators, this whole forum would be a mess. It is the work of the moderators that gives this forum the quality it has.

Uh..okay, never mind. I just need to pay closer attention to the icons.

[Mnemolth]

[b]This is just my personal opinion.[/b]

I think that Boards belong to the Admins/Mods who run them. If you don't like the way things are run, you can have your input, but at the end of the day, its the staff that makes the decisions. And if you don't like those decisions, then tough. No one is forcing you to stay. If you think you can do better, you can go and create your own Boards.

Having said that...I would hope that Admins and Mods alike all want to foster a community spirit and make the Boards the best they can (whatever this means to them). In that vein...I would say this.

Mods and, yes, even Admins are human beings. They are prone to the same failings and weaknesses that afflict all human beings. None of them are Gods and none of them are perfect. They can be just as petty and vindictive and an*l as the rest of us. I think everyone that is involved in Boards on the Internet should recognise and acknowledge this fact. This includes Members, Mods and Admins alike.

People shouldn't *ss-kiss and Admins/Mods shouldn't be influenced by any *ss-kissing. But all this is easier said than done. After all we're all human. But if we all accept this fact, it makes life not only easier for everyone, it can often make life much more interesting for all concerned.

Members should understand that admin and mods are not only responsible for enforcing the 'rules', they are also responsible for ensuring the survival and prosperity of a Board. In particular, Admins have a much greater stake in the success of a Board than your average member. Its their 'baby'. So if they use their discretionary powers in a way you dislike, then maybe you should try to step into their shoes and try to understand where they're coming from. You might not be breaking any 'rules' but if they think you are harming the Boards, then you should understand why they might step in to stop you.

Admins and Mods should accept that they are not perfect, and that if they make a mistake, there's no shame in owning up to it. To acknowledge one's transgressions is no a vice, but a virtue, its a sign of strength and not one of weakness. There is often an argument made that if Admins/Mods were to listen too much to Members or to change their minds, it might appear they are acting out of whim, or what's worse, that they might undermine their own authority as it might encourage more Members to dispute their decisions. Chaos and disruptions to the Board ensues. This is true. If you are making too many mistakes, or constantly changing your mind, it does mean something is wrong. But to think you're infallible is also a mistake.

The 'rules' exist. But like laws in real life, they do not exist in a vacuum. That's why we have judges, and we don't have computers doing the interpretation of laws. The application and enforcement of 'rules' is not purely a mechanical process.

Just because a certain post or behaviour is 'technically' outside the rules does not necessarily make it 'bad' for the Board, just as one that is within the rules doesn't mean its necessarily 'good' for the Boards either.

Common sense and good judgement are essential.

PS:

I've had three threads locked.

The first one was because it was supposedly it should have been made under an existing thread. I would disagree cos think they are substantial differences. But I can see how others might not view it that way.

Second was because apparently my the nature of my thread was prone to abuse, and when it was locked down there was already abuse happening. Again I disagreed with that decision. My reasons are somewhere in this forum. But I would say I understand that one too.

The third thread was locked, because there's some 'official' Awards thing for OtakuBoards and my non-serious and mostly fun thread was locked down cos, as I understand it I was encroaching on the territory of others. The third one I find most difficult to understand. It just seems a little petty to me.

But being a newbie and having seen the work James has put into this Board, I didn't kick up a fuss. Its not my place so I defer to his judgement. Besides, I think he's earned it.

[James]

[color=royalblue]Mnemolth, that's probably the best post I've seen explaining the issue.

And it's true -- I make mistakes the same as everyone else. And unfortunately it can be very hard to please the majority all the time.

It's like with v6. Some people will come up to me and tell me straight out "That looks absolutely disgusting, why did you do it?". While others will say "Hey! The boards look really nice!".

In that situation, it can be kind of difficult to deal with everything without being short and sharp with people.

So I'm not asking for praise or for everyone to just keep quiet about their problems...but there is always the right way and the wrong way to approach a situation. If you're respectful and you understand these pressures and time constraints, then you're much more likely to become a respected member...both by myself and the other staff and members.[/color]

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sage [/i]
[B]Gah, do people really need THAT many examples? I don't think so...

Me, too, think that deleting would be the best way. You can't even delete the thread you started and that was closed yourself. Why?

Remember kids, that we do not live in the Middle Ages anymore, we do not need shame-punishments.

And if it's the space that is the problem, wouldn't deleting be just the right answer?

What would be a good change would be that moderators would unsharpen up their stingy tongues and actually close threads in NICE WORDS. Nobody

All I want to say, that being a mod doesn't mean one has to be a *****. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red] Mods don't have any more power than a regular member. All they do is uphold the rules and stop those that abuse them for doing that. Also, at least when I close a thread, I by no means am mean. I usually try to just tell [i]lightly[/i] why the thread is closed. You need to understand that mods are just regular people doing their assigned job. As for deleting the thread, I think no. It shows an example to new members what is right and what is wrong to post up on these boards, and just helps to enforce and show the way of the rules.[/color]

[Solo Tremaine]

I agree with people here, but one thing that I've seen is that closing a forum can hurt people's feelings- I felt really embarrassed that I double-posted on my first night here -and sometimes the way the closing posts are worded can be a little harsh. I don't want to draw on examples, but there have been some where they've been worded in a slightly nasty way. It isn't deliberate, and I'm really glad that the mods do all this work for everyone, but it can build up grudges, and just a subtle change of wording can completely change the hidden meaning of a post as interpreted by the reader. I know when one thread in the Digimon forum was closed, I felt really quite bitter about it because of the way the closing post was written. It's just things like that that I'd like to ask mods to be mindful of. I know your job must be difficult, and I know I probably don't know the half of it, but it could help you not get so much aggro from people. Just an idea.

[James]

[color=royalblue]I think most Moderators aim to be as civil as they can. But as I've said before, they are human too. If they have closed two or three really silly threads that day...well, you can see how it might build up.

I think both sides need to give leeway where it's due.

Members have to understand that Moderators are doing their job...and they don't always have the time to be 100% careful about wording their posts.

On the other hand, Moderators have a responsibility to not only uphold the site's rules...but to also deal with things in a calm and resopnsible manner.

Both sides are always going to make mistakes. It's bound to happen.

But as long as we understand these issues...I don't see it as much of a problem.

Of course, if something really significant arises...then by all means, members have the ability to talk to me about it so that it can be resolved. Or you can even PM the Moderator to talk it out. It's better to talk about it in a civil way, as opposed to bearing a grudge that just grows over time.[/color]

[Phantom]

Five words can explain Mathguy's concerns.

I has always been done..

Since the begining of messageboardin' ... in the early days of cgi, since as long as the internetwork known so well has become commercially distrobuted, messageboards have operated in this same fashion...

Not medievil punishment.. its pretty damned efficient... Lets just leave it at that... its nothing about humiliation...its just the way its done..dont like it.....watever.

[MathGuy2]

That does not sum up Mathguy's concerns. I am not complaining about the power of the moderators. I believe that they are doing their job, and without some administration, we would not have a message board of this quality.

All I am simply stating is the irony of the closed thread whose last post says "We don't need these threads taking up space." I can understand the reason of a closed thread if there is some conversation, but frankly a thread like the following does not need to be saved:

-----
What's your favorite color?
-----
Threads like these are not allowed.
-----

It's useless to keep that, in my opinion. The thread should be deleted, not just closed. I am NOT stating that the thread should be kept open.

And if the reason for keeping them open is to show people what NOT to post, then write that in a sticky thread called "Rules" that detail types of threads not to post. To borrow that "shame-punishment" example, a written code of laws is much more useful than a set of imprisoned people saying "Don't do X because you'll be arrested."

[James]

[color=royalblue]I do agree with Mathguy to some extent -- of course we don't want too many closed threads.

But you have to remember that if we delete every closed thread, some people will not learn. They won't see bad examples. And therefore, people are more liable to make mistakes more frequently.

So obviously we have to strike a balance. It may not be to your tastes, but we can't please everyone unfortunately.[/color]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=royalblue]But you have to remember that if we delete every closed thread, some people will not learn. They won't see bad examples. And therefore, people are more liable to make mistakes more frequently.

So obviously we have to strike a balance. It may not be to your tastes, but we can't please everyone unfortunately.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

It's probably also important to bear in mind that the people who most need these example don't even bother looking for them, so we end up with an over-abundance of examples that no-one looks at before posting [i]another[/i] thread, destined to be another example..

[Sandy]

I think it works well, if you keep the examples up for a while, and when they are getting away from the first page, delete them then. Of course, it would be pointless then, but it would please either opinions, ne?

Gosh, when did I become a mediator?:rolleyes:

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Deus_Ex_Machina [/i]
[B]It's probably also important to bear in mind that the people who most need these example don't even bother looking for them, so we end up with an over-abundance of examples that no-one looks at before posting [i]another[/i] thread, destined to be another example.. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red] And those that can't follow the rules like that after a few times of breaking them are banned. So either they learn their lesson, or they are banned. So it all works in the end.[/color]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mitch [/i]
[B][color=red] And those that can't follow the rules like that after a few times of breaking them are banned. So either they learn their lesson, or they are banned. So it all works in the end.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, but I was referring more to the fact that the threads are still there, but no one actually checks them (at least, hardly anyone who was considering making another pointless thread), rather than the fact that that menmber posts more threads. There's always a large number of members coming in and making these threads, but the previous threads don't get deleted, so we end up with a mass of pointless, closed threads, whether the members are banned or not.

I think a far better idea would just be to have a seperate area with examples of what not to do, like a sub-forum. It sounds pretty stupid, but if someone really was wondering if something was OK, it'd be easy to go into a sub-forum with examples of what not to do and search through it. Also it'd take some of the clutter out of the main forums. If they didn't care, then they're not likely to search regardless of what forum the example is in, so you don't really lose anything, except you may feel easier about deleting threads knowing that there's lots of examples already. (or at least move the thread into the "examples sub-forum")

[James]

[color=royalblue]No, actually, what would be better is if...*deep breath*

PEOPLE READ THE RULES!

Heh, okay...sorry about that, but I'm sure you understand what I mean. I can't make it any clearer afterall. ;)

The fact is, for the most part we shouldn't [i]need[/i] examples of what is right and wrong. People should read the rules...and browse the forums a little before they join so that they understand the "culture" of the boards.

You know, usually (regardless of what forum you visit), it's recommended that you "lurk" for a few days before you register. Then you really do get a sense of how everything should work. And when you finally do register, you don't have any problems.

I know that on a daily basis, we get a handful of guests or more...some who have read these boards for a long time but never joined. I really recommend that people read for a while [i]first[/i], before joining.

As for the closed threads specifically...well, we can't always have a perfect environment. If we delete them all, there will be more mistakes made (less examples of what not to do)...but if we don't delete them all, they will clutter everything up.

So, we delete some...and leave some. Simple enough? :)[/color]