Can We Prove We Exist?

[Amphion]

Can we really prove we exist?

It was Descarte who said, "I think therefore I am." This in some sense proved to him that he did, in fact, exist. However he never could prove that you or anyone else existed. So how do we know that John Doe accross the street really exists? Furthermore, on the one statement above, can one even legitimetly prove that he exists?

My answer is no, We can not really prove one exists, we can only base our decision on the way we percieve the world. But you may have a different one.

This is just one of the many random thoughts I have. I was just wondering what everyone thought on the subject. Dont be afraid to post what you think. But dont turn this in to a religious debate, this is just general philosophy.

Everyone who thinks is a scientist.

[Guest Matt]

[color=red][b]*slaps self* ow. Yep, I exist.[/b][/color]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Last time I checked, I existed.

Hope things like that dont change day by day...[/color]

[Foredaddy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Son Goten [/i]
[B][color=red][b]*slaps self* ow. Yep, I exist.[/b][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Hey that looked like it hurt. Id say Son Goten exists. Not as Son Goten but as a human, a dorky human, but still human.:p

just pickin:D

[Guest Matt]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Foredaddy [/i]
[B]Not as Son Goten but as a human, a dorky human, but still human.:p

just pickin:D [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red][b]lol...f00k you man. lol[/b][/color]

[Amphion]

Does that really prove you exist? Our senses are unreliable. You can not prove existense based on feel, taste, ect. Yes I can touch you(well not really right now, but you get the point) but that does not prove you exist.

One might think its silly. But the concept in "the Matrix" is one that illustrates my point quite well. Your brain could have been told that you were to experience pain, therfore you felt pain. That doest really prove you exist in this world.

[Guest Matt]

[color=red][b][quote]He thinks too much, such men are dangerous[/quote][/b][/color]

[Amphion]

[quote]He thinks too much, such men are dangerous[/quote]

Perhaps, but I would be more afraid of the scientist who are trying to figure out how to create black holes in a labratory.:D

Something about that has accident written all over it. :worried:

[Guest Matt]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Amphion [/i]
[B] I would be more afraid of the scientist who are trying to figure out how to create black holes in a labratory.:D [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red][b]That is scary. But my quote was from Julius Caesar. He says that about Caius(i think), who in turn plots his murder. Muhahahaha!

erm..*cough*

I liked the Matrix.[/b][/color]

[RicoTranzrig]

[color=darkblue]You can't, all depends on your perception of the world...you see all the things around you, the 'real world.' Everything, science, theory, proof...it's all human derived from their percetions and everyone else belives because it seems 'logical' but even that idea came from others.

How can you think about who you are if other people don't tell you how to think? lol[/color]

[wrist cutter]

I know people exist because I'm not smart enough to dream up all of you.

[Foredaddy]

Here we go.

First off, The Matrix is a movie and is not based on reality. Secondly The fact you exist is based on your ideas, feelings(touch taste etc.), emotions, and other people in your surroundings. To say that you do not exist doesn't make sense, if you did not exist you would not be able to communicate or be alive in any way shape or form. Even in The Matrix people were alive. They did exist, but it was what they were percieving that was real to them. If nothing existed, then what is all this around you. Without existence there is nothing. Even less than nothing.

[Amphion]

Foredaddy: Yes you are correct, the Matrix [b]is[/b] just a movie and its not based on reality. And as I said it would, it did sound silly, but it illustrated my point quite well. I dont think its a matter of existense in general, just more of do we exist in the world we see, hear, and feel.

And like I siad previously, our senses are unreliable. If you touch something that is very, very cold, it burns...however its not hot. You would think its hot, but that is not true. And ideas can not prove anything either. Rico has the same Idea as I do about we can only base our decision on the way we percieve the world but does that prove to me he exists? Not really.

[Foredaddy]

Yeah but who is to say that real hot and real cold should feel different. They both feel extreme to the touch. Thats just a way your body tells you that you should take your hand or whatever away imediately. And about existence, I quote myself "If nothing existed, then what is all this around you. Without existence there is nothing. Even less than nothing." If Rico does not exist them how do you communicate with him. Even if he was a computer or electronic signal or whatever Rico would exist in that form. He may not be human but he does exist.

[Mnemolth]

Can't quite answer that existentialist question, myself, but I do have an alternative one for all of you. And I'd like you to seriously think about it rather than throw in some dismissive glib comment.

And the question: Would you follow the rabbit?

For those uninitiated to the Matrix concept, what if someone can conceive and build a machine that is PERFECT in everyway, and when you are hooked up to this machine, you can smell, taste, feel and touch everything, and it is all real. Friend, family, lovers, enemies, all of it. So this is a machine that turns dreams into reality.

So would you take the pill and be hooked up, and the machine will take care of all your bodily needs till you die, but you will not notice any of this cos you will be in the dream made by the machine.

The point of answering this kind of question is not to punch holes in the scenario, it is to question what reality means to us.

You might say, at the end of the day you're still the poor schmuck lying on the bed out of his freaking mind. No, you're not. You're not aware of any of that. Indeed, 'you' are the person living your life in the world created by the machine. You wouldn't take the pill cos its not real? We're going in circles, the point is it IS real to you. Once you've taken the pill you have no previous memories, everything WILL be real. This is not like a drug, cos no drug is 'perfect', there is always a comedown and you always retain your previous memory.

I, for one, will be honest, I'd take the pill. And I suspect so would most people. What would you do?

[Amphion]

Ill try to explain this the best I can. Your refering to things on a more physical term. I am looking at the mental conciousness of the human-being. Yes either way, Rico physicaly existist, but is Rico's concious running on its on inside his head. Is he dictating everything he does on his own with no outside interferrence? Just because I can communicate with him does not prove the previous statement. Am I really running on my own free will? Or am I being told what to think? I could exist but be undergoing an experiment by a greater being. What if we are all computers. Do we really exist in the true "real world"? Yes. We exist as computers. But not as humans.

Did that clear things up any. Sometimes I do a poor job at explaining myself.

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Can we prove we dont exist?[/color]

[Amphion]

No. Maybe we should ask Descarte if he doesn't exist now that he is dead...lol

[Charles]

Well, think about it.

We can't see certain lengths and light waves, so certain objects appear to us as they are displayed by our imagination. Cats and dogs supposedly see things differently than us, as do other species. So, what we do know of, and [I]think[/I] exists, doesn't really as we know it.

In the end, I feel that the answer to our existence lies in the expression, "If a tree falls and no one's around to hear it..."

Well, if we base our existence on such senses, many of us don't exist to one another. There are species of fish and insect on this earth that don't exist [I]because we haven't found them.[/I] So, if there is life beyond this planet, we don't exist to them, based on senses.

I read this article before, and they mentioned how existence is purely optical. If we close our eyes, nothing is there, because we can't transfer light and molecules into our imagination.

So, yeah, we exist to some extent, but it's hard to place definition on it.

[Semjaza]

When I was younger I used to wonder if maybe all our lives, and the entire world for that matter, were just a dream of something/someone else. And if that thing would awaken, we'd all just disappear.

Then Wilson said that same thing on Home Improvment like a few years later, so I kind of gave up on that idea lol.

[Guest Hikaru Ichijyo]

I think there for I am, if you prick me I bleed. So therefore I must exist in some form or another to experience these emotions. ;) So I guess I can prove my existance just not yours! ;)

[Amphion]

I agrea somewhat with what CWB said, but I disagrea with the article he mentioned. Based on that article, nothing exists to a Blind person.

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Amphion [/i]
[B]I agrea somewhat with what CWB said, but I disagrea with the article he mentioned. Based on that article, nothing exists to a Blind person. [/B][/QUOTE]

Based on sight yes. But, that was a small example. Let's broaden it.

Take away the senses of touch, sight, and sound. Not much exists at that point.

Of course, people still exist, but not in the case of that particular person.

[Kent]

"I think, there for, I am"

[XeEmO]

We can proove we exist just by thinking. We may not be able to proove everything around us is actually there but we could not think without some kind of mind so therefor it would be impossible for us to be non-existant.