Can We Prove We Exist?

[Flash]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not sure if [i]anything[/i] really exists. It could all just be some kind of mental prison, to quote the Matrix.

"How can we prove that we exist? Maybe we don't exist."

[Guest Kodama-]

what's the point of liveing were all ganna die and be forgotten in two to three generations.

...What's the point?

[Justin]

The point of living is to live.

As far as proving whether or not we do or do not exist: Does it really friggin' matter?

-Justin

[Red]

[b]I completely agree with Justin.

Even if we don't exist, we know that we are here (whatever that may be), and we should enjoy this place and this sentience for as long as we can. We all eventually die, we have a life for now, why not enjoy it and forget about the trivial worries of death and pain?

Existence cannnot be proved, as it has been mentioned in this thread we could all be in someones dream and once they wake up, we stop existing. But why does this matter? We have discovered the insane mysteries of this 'universe' we live in, it's theoretical beginning and eventual end, which could come at any time.[/b]

[Guest Voodookanaka]

[b]'I think therefor i am'[/b] ..... so...if u dont think a lot u stop existing? [i]*looks to see back of his hand fading away*[/i] so what if we dont exist, its my theory we are already dead and this is our lives flashing before our eyes :)







p.s. hello :)

[Sere Tuscumbia]

And now I get to put my extremely weird thoughts into this matter.

Maybe we don't exist. 'Cause, if you think about it, the only reason my fingers (just a bunch of cells) aren't melding with the keyboard keys (more cells) is because the cells don't configure. And the only reason my cat's eyes are green is because the light refracting off of them is the color green and not any other color.

So do we exist? If I close my eyes, will everything disappear except for the things that I'm touching? And is touch really real? Our cells, molecules, whatever you want to think of them as, cells don't configure with other things cells, which tell us if it is hot, or cold, or soft, or hard. Does it really exist?

To pull in a religious theory: Is there really a Heaven? A Hell? We haven't been able to prove the Garden of Eden, if Heaven/Hell really existed because we haven't been there. So does California not exist because I haven't seen it yet?

We've never thought of the fact that existance might be based solely on the individual being. I exist, looking the way I do, because I see myself this way. But however the person sitting next to me might see me a different way then I see myself. They might see the world differently then I see it. Existance might be based on how people's minds break down the information given to them by light, or cells, or whatever's out there!

Does our main power center (the brain) really exist? Well, to me it does. I've held a brain (from a dead person of course). It exists in my physical realm. My conscience, though? Well, my brain (if it's even there) thought "Hey, that's me. Or one of me . . ." and so my body reacted in a "Ewwwww . . ." manner. If you think about it, pain is what our minds believe it to be. Mind over matter. If someone hauls off and socks me a good one, and I say "That doesn't hurt." will it not hurt? If I believe that it does not hurt, will it?

Who's to say we exist?

[Anna]

(hello Voodoo :wave: )


All this talk is merely relative. And wouldn't it seem odd if I thought you existed but you were bound and determined in the idea that you do not? Who's right? It's relative. So in that case, no one is right, and this dicussion has no purpose except to upset and confuse and in the end reach no final answer. Instead of asking "what are we" on terms of our state of being, the question should instead be "[i]who[/i] are we". You won't ever reach the conclusion to the formal question if you don't understand the latter first.

[Genkai]

uh.. well.....

to me, existence is impossible. it doesn't make sense. i dunno, ive thought that since i was 6.

[Anna]

Hmm, existence is impossible because it doesn't make sense. And you thought this when you were six years old..... Typically, six-year-olds can barely comprehend half the stuff they see on TV, let alone the question of existence.... just because something didn't make sense to a six-year-old doesn't mean something is impossible. :)

[James]

[color=royalblue]Go outside and dig a hole in the ground.

That proves you exist. Why? Because your actions have impacted another object.

Just look at pollution and things like that; if mandkind didn't "exist", then our waste wouldn't be affecting the Earth in the way that it is.

So...of course we can prove that we exist. Just as we can prove that dinosaurs existed; we leave behind evidence of our existence. Whether it's a fossil in a rock, or a Coke can on the beach. [/color]

[Guest cloricus]

Hey think in a million years when they dig up ground and find billions of weird footprints!
And they will never know what we know - THEY WHERE DIFFERENT TYPES OF SHOES!!!!

(Note that I didn't read up the page at all and only saw james post!)

-Lord Epssy

[RicoTranzrig]

In another way,...you can also impact another emotionally. You may be able to scientifically prove a physical existence...but it's not that easy to prove that we have a 'soul', or things like: why we mourn when someone dies, why we laugh, why we do certain things that don't make sense to others....I guess those are the mysteries that make life worth living without stopping to explain our existence.

[Mitch]

[color=red] For all we know, we could only be existing as we see it, and are blinded by the fact that we aren't exisiting. Ok, I'm just confusing myself..

But, last time I checked, I thought I existed...I guess.[/color]

[Foredaddy]

If it wasn't for those DAMN DIRTY APES we might have some answers around here. :devil:

[Genkai]

well, ya know, i just don't think that existence is the right word forwhat we're all talkingabout..O.o

[Amphion]

I guess the real question is, can we prove that we exist in the form that we percieve ourselves?

[Darkmoon]

A while ago I used to wonder this same question. "Do we really exsist or are the things that I am feeling just something else?"

Then afterwards I started wondering a different question. "Do the people around me exsist or am I just living in a world were everything is set a certain way? Somewere that everything goes one way, like a robot."

I gave up on these thoughts just because they confused me and some times depressed me.

If I don't exsist than nothing I do matters. But then how can I not be real when I am feeling and am understanding? Perhapes we are all one concious being that has be devided. Some with a more sense of peace, and some violent. Some increadably intellegent and some stupid. All of us haveing a certain part and share of the being. And none of us realizeing that we should not be fighting each other but join together. But when the original mind devided it spawned a new life. We all grew to become seperat minds, not wanting to accept what we might've been (life would have become like those borg creatures in star treck. All in one collective. How boreing). I do not belive this but it could be a possibility I guess.

I'm just gonna stop. I'm mixing myself up. This is a very strange topic. I shoulda never read it... Just the fact that people can think things up and bring new ideas should be proof enough that we are real. We don't need anything more.

Some things were just ment to be left alone.

[Shinobi]

Ok you've been watching to much Matrix, That movie has infected our fragile little mind, lol, so i geuss you took the red pill? Lmao.

[Darkmoon]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shinobi [/i]
[B]Ok you've been watching to much Matrix, That movie has infected our fragile little mind, lol, so i geuss you took the red pill? Lmao. [/B][/QUOTE]

Who? Me? I do not have a damaged fragile little mind!!! I was jus' trying to fit into the conversation maybe.

K, maybe I did watch the matrix a bit to much... But it wasn't my fault. My brother loves that movie and puts it on every so often. And yes, I probably would've taken the red pill out of curiosity:p.

[Kent]

ok, I still say, " I think, therefore, I am"

that is really all that matters here because once you can think it means you exist.

You are capable of action phisical or mental, where as if you didnt exist you couldnt do anything at all.

this is almost rediculus.

argument for the sake of argument usaully leads to ignorant fights.

and atleast with a stupid fight you would get more proof that you exist.

even in the matrix, in the digital world, those people are thinking, they are actually doing something. even though their bodies are in some nasty stuff and they have no idea, they still wouldnt be in the matrix if they didnt exist in the "real" world.

if you think about anything, you exist.

[Amphion]

No one is arguing here gokents. Were just merely discussing a topic.

Being able to think does seem like it gives enough evidence to prove that oneself exists. But We still do not have a good enough answer to prove that another person exists.

If Rico digs a hole,(Im not sure how Rico always ends up in the examples, but oh well)yes he has effected the earth but that doesnt prove he exists. Rico could be just a dream or something my imagination has constructed or someone else constructed in my head for that matter. Even if numerous people experience the effect of Rico it still does not prove he exists. How do we know the people who experience Rico exists? See what I am saying.

It seems as though years have passed yet we are still stuck on the same problem that Descarte could never figure out. How do we prove that another person exists?

[Kent]

Intresting, I understand what you are saying but before I go into a response, I would like to mention that "arguing" was for the lack of a better word. I never really meant it as if people in the thread were upset and insulting each other.

and so...

proving another exist.
if another person thinks, that should be enough, but how can I tell that another person is thinking? well, I cant, but somethings must be taken on faith.

I imagine that in this disscusion simply taking something on faith is not enough. Instead, let us base this on interaction.

as you were saying, if rico digs a hole and it effects the earth then that alone means rico exist, because if you are really going to take the "intellectual" approach to this, then you know that a dream can not interact with reality and there for rico can not be a dream.

[Sara]

I doubt, therefore I might be.

I'm going to just quietly agree with James and Rico on this one. If you impact someone or something, it's a bit tricky to say you don't exist.

[PiroMunkie]

[color=indigo]This is quite an interesting topic. Often have I read the ever famous quote: "I think, therefore I am." That has been debated in saying that people can think, and that might prove that [i]you[/i] exist, but what of other things around you? If they don't exist, than how can you be absolutely sure that you are? This leads into Cera's statement "I doubt, therefore I might be." (a golden statement, if I do say so myself... do I say so?? lol..)

So then James and Rico bring up that you can prove that you, and other things exist, because we can affect the other. This can lead into the statement that "Life is pain." So if we can feel pain, then surely we have to be alive. Perhaps this is why mankind is violent in nature. We fight to prove that we exist, because in fighting others must be hurt whether it be a phsyical, mental, or emotional pain. Still, this can only prove that things that can actually move and think are real. So what about inanimate objects? Like a tree. A tree, as far as we know, cannot think. It cannot move unless it is moved. In a sense, a tree is merely a complex machine. It is made up of a countless number of cells, and cells have a nucleus - the equivalent of a brain. A nucleus can only perform that one cell's function. The cells of a leaf work to absorb sunlight and carbon dioxide to keep themselves from dying. In return, they release oxygen. What happens to the oxygen? We inhale it. The leaves on the tree help us live, and since those leaves impacted our being, then those leave do exist. The bark of a tree works as a shell to protect the wood beneath it. If someone were to throw a rock at a tree, it would hit the bark. The bark takes the damage, and the wood beneath it stays the same. The bark has affected the wood by allowing it not to be damaged. So the bark does exist. The wood is sturdy, which allows it to reach up high. It's height allows the trees leaves to absorb the proper amount of sunlight to make them work properly. So the wood affects the leaves by helping them live. So the wood does exist. The roots of a tree dig into the ground, giving the the tree a solid base to stand upon. It also absorbs water and nutrients from the earth around it. This gives the wood and bark its life, the wood gives the leaves life, and the leaves help give us life. So the tree, as a whole, must exist. Every part of it has its purpose.

In conclusion, if it can affect and be affected, then it does exist.[/color]

[Genkai]

maybe we're all just in dreams of brains preserved in a mad scientists lab.............


anyway, for all i know, i could be in a dream, and no one else exists, and you all are just part of my mind.......O.o