North Korean NUKES...!?

[Kent]

Yup thats right.

after today, N. Korea has come out and said they have a nuke weapons program and they claim to have the nukes them selves.

I dont want this to be true, but Im almost sure it is.

american gov. officials will not say wether it is true or not, which to me means that they may really have them.

the way I see it, if we didnt know they had them, then there is a good chance that the secret weapons program they claim to have, really was a sucsess... for them.

its even more aggrevatting to me because this was all prohibited by an agreement they made with pres. william jefferson clinton.

with an agrement saying that they wouldnt build the weapons, I wouldnt be suprised to find out that the u.s. stopped any major efforts to find out about any possible weapons programs.(well atleast for the prior administration, and up till current in the new one)

even more discouraging is the fact that the n. koreans are communist and we all know that major communist countries have a dendancy to pass on arms to their "younger siblings". I.E. china-n.korea.

unfortuantly the d.o.d. hadnt been really worried about spies in the 90s, until the u.s. found out that a chineese spy had gotten secrets about the m-88 tactical nuke, "suit case bomb",from los alomos nuclear facility, to the chinesse government.

so now the u.s. is sure the chinesse have some of our highest secrets. question is... do the koreans?

in light of recent events, I wouldnt be suprised if they did.

lets just hope not, for our sake, and the sake of the south koreans.
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now that Im thinking about it,

54,000 americans died to liberate south korea from communist and with in the last three weeks south korean students marched on an american flag in protest of the war on terror.

with that in mind, I say, forget south korea...
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of course that is kinda harsh because not all of them hate america, but those ignorant students that would protest aggrevate me because if they were in n. korea, they would all be killed for protesting. (of course,not if they were protest the u.s.a., hell, even saddam lets his people do that.)

but protesting anything about their own country would end with a little tienamen square.

so maybe the south koreans should think about that before they protest the country that ensured their independence.

I mean its not like the south korean/american governments are the ones keeping families apart by not letting people leave north korea.

DOWN WITH COMMUNISM.

[Guest Matt]

[color=red][b]So they have nukes. So does China, India, Pakistan, Russia, etc. No one is actually dumb enough to launch one. That would start a whole new World War.[/b][/color]

[Kent]

do you really want to find out if someone would launch one.

plus, when people talk about the u.s. having nukes, its nothing but how bad nukes are and what a danger they are.

all the sudden when one more hostile communist nation gets one its, so what.

I dont think steven ambrose would agree with that kind of statment.
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maybe Im being a bit harsh. Im sorry.

but anyone and everyone(military historian or not) should know that another hostile communist country with a nuke is bad.

whether they are openly or secretly planning on using it or not.

nobody should have nukes, and countries like north korea (and pakistan and india for that matter) jumping on the nuke train is a bad thing.

[Guest Matt]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]do you really want to find out if someone would launch one.[/quote]

[color=red]Hey, if Saddam is smart enough not to launch one even tho he has them, everyone is smart enough.[/color]

[quote]plus, when people talk about the u.s. having nukes, its nothing but how bad nukes are and what a danger they are.[/quote]

[color=red]They are bad and they are a danger. That is another reason people don't use them[/color]


[quote]I dont think steven ambrose would agree with that kind of statment.[/quote]

[color=red]Ok. What's that got to do with anything?[/color]

[quote]but anyone and everyone should know that another hostile communist country with a nuke is bad.
whether they are openly or secretly planning on using it or not.
nobody should have nukes, and countries like north korea (and pakistan and india for that matter) jumping on the nuke train is a bad thing.[/QUOTE]

[color=red]YOu gotta be dumb not to know it is bad. And if they plan to use it openly, then they will be attacked or prevented from using it. They may even be nukes first by the country they are targeting. Well, if they can't make thier nukes they will just buy pre-cold war ones from Russia. Everyone will have them sooner or later. It's just like with guns. Only the army had them originally, but it eventually flowed into the population.[/b][/color]

[Kent]

you are right, everyone knows they are bad.

but, just cause they are bad and everyone knows, we should let more bad countries get them?

and I said the steven thing because you obviously respect him and Im sure that he would not react to this new devolpment with a "so what" sort of attitude.

also, its important to remember that saddam doesnt have the kind of nukes we are talking about.
his nukes are the size of a school bus.

the north koreans have nukes that can be launched on a missile.
thats a major difference, because delivery is almost as important as the bomb itself.

[Guest Matt]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i]
[B]and I said the steven thing because you obviously respect him and Im sure that he would not react to this new devolpment with a "so what" sort of attitude.[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red][b]Just because I read his books and liked them, doesn't mean I beleive the same way he does. I like the way he tells a true story. There is not much room in a true story to but the author's beliefs. So I really don't know, and frankly don't care, what he would think.[/b][/color]

[Kent]

wow, thats amazing that you dont care.

i guess it goes to show how sincere you really are about crap in your sig. but i want this to be on subject so lets just forget the steven ambrose thing and address the threads issue.

communist with nukes.

[Guest Matt]

[color=red][b]He died. He was my favorite author. So I have a rememberance in my sig. If I don't care what he thinks on a certain topic it doesn't mean I don't care about him in general. Why is it every time I post something people try and fight with me over it? It's getting me pissed.[/b][/color]

[Break]

[size=1][color=green]Nukes.. gotta hate 'em. Everyone has them nowadays, you can even make them from instructions on the internet. Wars are so very cowardly these days as well, it's like "I'll just push this big red button and a second later 250 cruize missles will destroy a small chunk of a city." or something similar to that.

I hate it that people can do that now, it also makes me pretty scared because all someone has to do is push button = boom! The country's uninhabitable for well over a century or even two and millions of people can die, not just from radiation but can also be instantly and completely erased if they are in the blast radius.

I wish nukes never exsisted (apart from to end WWII, other wise it would have probably been going on in the 60s).[/size][/color]

[LostProphet]

Nukes....Nukes Suck. I may be total military, and I do believe that a country should have a strong army. But if war is a poker game, then That nuke is like a hidden Ace. It's cheating. War should be ground based, and between units, not individual missiles

[Mitch]

[color=red] I said this in an earlier thread, and I'll say it again--Technology will be our downfall. This doesn't come as a shock to me, of course they've got nukes. Almost every country these day does, or is secretly planning to do so. And about how nobody is stupid enough to launch a nuke. You have no idea what ignorant leaders and people we have in this world to day. Not for a second do I doubt that someone has enough temerity, enough evil, to launch one.[/color]

[GotenksSSJ343]

No one is stupid enough to launch one too. And I'm not surprised more countries are getting nukes I wouldn't be surprised if we all went to heaven or afterlife a little earlier becaue of all these nukes by next year I bet most of the worlds continents/countries will have nukes. no if you'll ecuse me its time for DBZ.

[Kent]

I think its really naive of you all who believe people woulnt use nukes.

Im not saying its going to happen, or thats its not.

but assumption is the mother of all f ups. (thats from some cheesy movie)

and I feel that way, to assume your enemy woulnt do something just because you think it would be stupid, is like thinking some gang banger woulnt shoot you because he would end up in jail.

Im not gonna risk my life on that, and if I was in a position of power, I wouldnt risk the lives of millions on " nobodies that stupid".

[Genkai]

well, "dwon with communism" is a strong statement., the communist idea isnt bad. it's what it's twisted into. socialism is a great idea, it just never works... imho

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by genkai_yyh [/i]
[B]well, "dwon with communism" is a strong statement., the communist idea isnt bad. it's what it's twisted into. socialism is a great idea, it just never works... imho [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red] Exactly my thoughts on Communism. Ideally it sounds good--The goverment gives everyone a job, they all get payed equally, everyone is equal. But it doesn't work. I could be doing my hardest at a job, and someone else, say Gokents, could be slacking off, but would still get paid the same amount although he did nothing, and I worked my butt off.

See, that's how it doesn't work. Also it doesn't work in that there's no incentive to do your best, no rewards for being the best. In the end, it just doesn't work. And many countries have learned that the hard way.[/color]

[MathGuy2]

Nuclear bombs don't work for othe human war mentality. Our revenge/fight feelings work properly in bare-hand/traditional-weapon combat, get worse when guns are introduced, and go wildly out of control when nuclear bombs and other large-scale, no-risk devices come into play. I wish people would realize that they have to restrain their anger when guns and bombs are the weapon of choice.

How ironic. We watched "The Lion King" in school today, and now that "Hakuna Matata" song is stuck in my head - when I'm reading about communist countries with nuclear bombs.

Why do we think that we, the Western powers, have to get weapons out of other countries? With what - our own nuclear bombs? Why do we assume that our government's any less corrupt and dishonest than others? Just because it's our country and we feel nationalism? Why do I smell worldwide nuclear war and near-destruction of humanity within my lifetime?

[Kent]

I actuallly dont make any sort of judgement of our "ethical status". I do how ever know that the u.s.a. has no intention of using these weapons of mass distruction.

where as, other nations intentions are totally unknown... that bothers me.

its not that america is more honest or that some one else is less honest, its just the facts that these other countries have nothing to lose, and we all know what that makes them.

and as for communism...

anime lover has it right.

its not like your family owned farm stays that way.
it becomes property of the government and then they put up an apartment complex where the house was.
then everyone in that complex works the fields.
unfortunatly, that means that none of the people working the land give a crap about it and nothing ends up working the way it was planned.

its also important to remember (I dont know how many of you have taken college level ancient history classes) but the first systems of money, record keeping, and writing were all invented because of what we commonly call today, capitalism.

we wanted to keep what we worked for, even if we had extra. so we came up with cuniform and clay tablets to keep track of who got more when it was time to divie it all up.

just remember that communism goes against inalienable human rights and human nature.

side note:
there is one place communism worked.

monistaries

another thing- I like to have things of my own.(thats one more reason I say down with communism.)

[Genkai]

that's the ticket. socialism might be great.. if humans were perfect....l

[James]

[color=royalblue]"Screw the South Koreans". Yeah, while we're at it, let's "screw the Afghans" too!

gokents, try to sound a little more intelligent. And for the absolute [b]last[/b] time...[i]clean up your posts![/i] Capital letters! Punctuation! Argh!

I don't think that this evidence should be any surprise. Intelligence sources from all over the world have known about North Korea's programs for a while now. In addition, North Korea fired a ballistic missile over Japan a few years back, which almost hit the Japanese coast.

I suppose the only good thing to come out of any of this is the fact that South Korea has engaged North Korea in a very active way (and rightfully so). South Korea has nothing to be blamed for; they have bent over backwards when it comes to building a relationship with North Korea. And the end result is that we are now getting closer to reunification than ever before. A rail link is being rebuilt between the two nations as we speak -- remember, these things take time. I don't expect relations to be repaired in only a year or two.[/color]

[Kent]

O.K.

I will watch the quality of my post.

I also want to point out that although I go off and say obviously unreasonable things, I am more reasonable than to honestly think anyone should just be forgotten.
I just get aggrevated. Thats all.

I would like to see the relations between North and South Korea grow, but I also dont think the North Koreans are ever going to be content with staying above the 38th.

I think its very likely that the second U.S. troops pull out,(which I hope they do) the communist will crash over the border and take what they believe to be thiers.

As for nukes being put into play. The more I think about it, the less I believe they would use them. But does that mean I would let my guard down, no. (still, it would be silly to nuke the very land you want to take over)

I also want to mention that I think its great that this thread even lasted. Most of the time, these sorts of threads dont make it.

Does this mean the boards can go political again?
Well, maybe not, but still, thanks for giving opinions.

And that goes to everyone, even those who think communism is good.

[James]

[color=royalblue]Since when were the boards "political"? o_O

I don't mind some political based discussion, but I don't want Otaku Lounge to be our unofficial politics forum. lol

Anyway, when all is said and done, I don't believe that North Korea will take any strong actions against anyone. If they do, they're as good as dead. I don't think American (or any other) troops should pull out of South Korea, simply because they have a responsibility and a commitment there. It's very immature to just dump your commitment because you don't feel like making the effort.

[/color]

[Kent]

Wait a sec.

I dont want to drop efforts there just because it takes work.

I also dont think America owes them anything.

Responsibility and commitment are also not something I think the U.S. has to take up over there.

This is what I was talking about earlier, they owe the 54,000 who defended them from communist, not the other way around.

I also want to mention about that comment you made to me about,"screw the Afghans too". That is irrelevant to me because the Afghans havent stomped on the American flag or showed any lack of respect.

Rather, Hamed Karzi has gone out of his way to show his appreciation.
This, the Koreans have not done. They have just insulted and protested American actions.

That is why I said screw the Koreans and to drop my countries un-appreciated actions there and not anything about Afghanistan.

And I will make sure the lounge doesnt become an unofficial political board.

Sorry for my strong opinions, but they do have reasoning behind them.

[James]

[color=royalblue]But you see, your reasoning is wrong.

Just because a few people in South Korea protest, doesn't mean that the entire country is somehow disrespectful to the United States. If you were to use that measure, then you'd say that the USA wouldn't be allowed to have a presence even in North America! Flag burnings go on all over the world and generally do not represent the views of the majority.

You can't possibly say that you want to crush communism on one hand, whilst subsequently saying that you want to pull out of South Korea because of some sort of lack of respect or whatever. That doesn't make sense and it's contradictory.

Part of the containment of communism is [i]based[/i] on having a presence in countries like South Korea. You said yourself that if America pulled out, North Korea would feel much more comfortable about invading. While that argument is questionable in nature, surely you can understand how your contention for pulling out is directly oppposed with your contention that communism should be restricted.

So the bottom line is simple; you're always going to have people protesting about one cause after another. People (even those in the USA) are going to burn your flag for reasons you disagree with. But as I said, these people do not represent the majority by any measure.

[/color]

[Kent]

You do have a point, the majority of Koreans are not represented by a group of protestors.

But to say that my arguement is not valid is not correct. I may want to "crush" communism. But to crush it, does not take the lives of my granparents generation, as demostrated by Ronald Reagon.

Communism will always crush itself. All I was getting at is that, in my opinion, if a country is will to protest adimitly about the "crimes" of a nation they owe their independence to, they dont deserve the support of that nation.

Some say one bad apple spoils the bunch, I say that I never forget crimes against my country, and that includes hippies.

Look at my sig, and you will see what I think of those ignorant enough to protest against their own country, all the while not appreciating the freedoms they have to do so.

Korea is a complicated issue, but I have made my opinion clear.

Those who can not acknowledge a great country, dont deserve its blessings.

[Flash]

Sometimes I'm more worried about the USA having Nukes than North Korea.