banning the swastika?

[Guest Matt]

[color=red][b]This has been a debate in my history class for awhile. Some people think that the Swastika (symbol used by the Nazi's in WW2) should be banned. They say it is a symbol of hate that should be gone forever.

I am outraged by people who think so. The Swastika was not originally used by the German's, it was a symbol that has been around for centuries used by many different cultures as symbols for the sun, peace symbols, etc. If you try and ban the Swastika, you are trying to ban a part of history. History should be remembered and learned from, or else we are doomed to repeat it.

Some people I know cringe when I showed them a picture of a swastika, and they wanted me to put it away. If I see a Swastika, I am not shocked. I am not going to go running to the police saying someone has a "hate symbol". If I see it hanging in a window, I am going to question what the people inside are doing, but that is all. My grandfather has a Nazi flag with a swastika on it he got from Germany during ww2. He has it framed and on the wall in the living room. He has no problem with it, and nor does anyone else in my family.

What are your opinions on the matter? And please, try to be serious.[/b][/color]

[Guest Anakin Solo]

I totally agree with you there. Yeah we should remember history, but in my mind, we really don't remember history.

So yes, I don't think it was banned just becaused the Nazis used it.

[Genkai]

I don't really like the Swastika, because it WAS a symbol of the Nazis, and WAS USED as a symbol of hate, among other things.

Well, let's see, it's VERY hard to ban something that is a symbol.

the more peaceful swastika is the one in buddhism, but in that, the "arm" things are facing a different direction.

im not outraged, i just dont think it can be done. i mean, it is historical. though it is most famous for its history of hate...

[Tsung Li]

[color=darkblue]I'm brittish, and I don't have a problem with it, although the Nazi's used it as a sign of hate, at the end of the day, its just a sign thats a big part of history. [/color]

[Kent]

Even if it's a sign of hate, or anything else for that matter, this is a question that the liberals in america should love.

Its all about freedom of expression, for as long as we try to allow people to say what they want or to protest as they may wish, we have no right to take away a persons right to hold this symbol up.

I also think its a thing of perspective, to some its a sign of hate, to others its just some random symbol.

To each his own.

although I personally see it as a symbol associated with the nazis and therefore a symbol of anti-semeticism.

[Semjaza]

I've never met anyone who looked a Swastika, and didn't nearly instantly think of Nazis, or at the very least hate. Even people that know the history of the symbol (I also think the Greeks used it; like mentioned, if it's in the reverse direction it means something opposite - both are used in certain types of witchcraft), would probably assume it had something to do with hatred. It doesn't matter what it meant hundreds of years ago, everyone knows about the Holocaust and WW2. Or they should at least.

Barring all that... Forgetting history is not a good thing to do, no matter what happened. Completely banning that symbol is the equivalent of forgetting about all the horrid things the Nazis did in WW2, and I don't think that should be allowed.

Everyone is just worried about being PC all the time. Getting rid of "hateful" symbols might make a few people feel like they did something remotely good in their lives, but it does nothing. Somehow I doubt even most Jewish people that were affected by the Holocaust would even want that symbol banned. Forgetting history will just lead to it repeating itself.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I strongly agree. First of all, banning the swastikamans forgetting WWII and the Nazi. Last year, in my school we spent a whole marking period on the Holocaust. The state law says you must learn abot te Holocaust before you enter High School. Why? So we will never forget what happened. So we will not repeat the same mistakes.

And secondly, Hitler was very into the west and Native Americans and such. One of, I believe that Navajo's(could be another tribe, though) had the swastika as a symbol in their culture. It orginally meant peace. What about that tribe today? If we were to banthe symbol, they couldn't use it, which isn't fait because it's a part of their cultue.

bah stupid curfew. I'll edit this later[/color]

[Guest SunRiZe]

I agree, You can't forget history, it will always have happened wether or not you banned a symbol or not.

We must remember those poor Jews, millions of them, who were killed

[Narius]

It depends on how you use it. If you flaunt it around and sticking it in peoples face then there's a problem. If someone who killed your family wore a symbol of some sort would you want a bunch of people walking up to you with the same symbol on them? I know I wouldn't.

[Semjaza]

I could see people wanting it banned from schools and stuff. They ban a lot of symbols and shirts at schools as it is. That was never really specified here though.

[Mnemolth]

I don't know the context in which you use the word 'banning'. But it is generally the case that 'banning' a symbol is to stop that symbol from being used in an inappropriate fashion. That means putting it as a bumper sticker on your car, flying it as a flag hanging outside your shop or home, using it as part of a corporate logo, etc.

As far as I understand it, 'banning' a symbol does not mean eliminating it completely from public view. So you can still tattoo it (your body is personal), show it in context, such as war museums, holocaust centers, in history classes, etc.

So any argument that it is a part of history and that to ban it will somehow 'erase' history is mistaken, at least in the sense that you can still see it on television, in history books, in war memorials, etc, so we can still 'remember'.

However, you can say it is a part of history, and that as such, we should be able to use it without any restrictions, and outside its WW2 context. It is essentially a question of freedom of expression.

But in thinking about freedom of expression/speech, it is IMPORTANT to understand that no freedom is absolute, not even the First Amendment. There needs to be a balance of public interests. You can't scream 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre and cause a panic and then claim you were exercising your freedom of speech.

Just some points I think you guys and gals should consider. :D

[Sere Tuscumbia]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by genkai_yyh [/i]
[B]the more peaceful swastika is the one in buddhism, but in that, the "arm" things are facing a different direction.[/B][/QUOTE]

Erm. Having gone to the Holocaust museum, I believe that it is actually one of the Native American symbols FOR peace. And yes, the arm things point the different direction in the "peace 'swastika'".

Once I went to the Holocaust museum, I now shudder slightly when I see a swastika, considering I was bawling like a baby when I walked out of the museum. (They have this candle room that's lit with all these candles that people have donated money for, and I just got all snuffly on that. More snuffly than I already was.)

Yeah, WWII was a horrible thing, and thousands of Jews died, whether in slave labor or in concentration camps, and everyone knows the story of Anne Frank (if you don't know the AF story, then you live a very ignorant life), but the swastika isn't a bad thing. The Nazi's just twisted (literally) a symbol to be used for the wrong purpose. It isn't the [I]symbol[/I] that's bad, it was the [I]man behind it all[/I].

I shall stop ranting now.

[Guest Hikaru Ichijyo]

:babble: Hmm well looking at it this way it depends on how the swastika is used or displayed. I personally have nothing against it being in a musuem for display or in history books. Though to have people wearing it as an ornament or jewelry I think shouldn't be allowed especially if it's being worn at a job or at school.

It's true history can't disappear though people should also respect the jewish people by not wearing that sign of hate as it is best known for. That's only my opinion though, others will vary. :)

[Dan L]

I don't agree with absolute banning.. That would be like saying 'this happened and we don't like it so let's just forget about it'. The trouble is, you can't do that to a major historic event, particularly such a terrible one. People need to be reminded of this stuff so that it doesn't happen again.

However, I do think it should be banned in certain contexts. I don't disapprove of what Son Goten was talking about, the swastika on his grandfather's wall, because it seems just to be a remider of one of the most major events in recent history, In the same way that some guy probably has a brick from the World Trade Centre on his mantlepeice (and I mean probably, I don't know if anyone actually does), just as a remider of a more recent, major event.

Although I don't mind that kind of use, "We mustn't forget this happened", I fully [i]disapprove[/i] of the other use, in the form of "Hitler was right" which still goes on today, in the Neo-Nazi culture.

I think in Germany it's actually illegal to wear a swastika sign anywhere on you- that doesn't mean that they don't ever see it and learn about what it means- there's no point banning something indefinitely if you're not going to tell future generations why it was banned.

I don't really think it's all about freedom at all. Though I think that the US is kind of on the right track by claiming personal freedom, I think they can go a bit far sometimes. There are some beliefs which are just [i]dangerous[/i], and if you had the same kind of regard for the freedom of Adolf Hitler's views
to the freedom of some of your own, we wouldn't have been on the winning side of WW2.

So yeah.. I think freedom is good, but there needs to be some restrictions as long as people are still just human..

Take the BNP here in britain.. the 'British National Party'.. They are a political party, centred around racism. They believe that britain belongs to the british, and that foreigners should never be allowed to live here. Whenever they march around towns and such there are huge inter-racial fights. The most horrible thing of all is that some people [i]actually vote[/i] for them.

[Ryuujin]

I honestly think that it should not be banned. It was a flag used by the Nazi's as with our American flag. Should people in Gemany or Vietnam ban our flag? Of course not. What about Japan? Should America ban the "Rising Sun"(I think that's what it called, the Japanese flag), they were apart or WW2. It just doesn't make sence at all to "ban" the Swastika. My 2 cents. Lataz

-OD

[Red]

[b]Completely banning the Swastika altogether would be an incredibly sad thing to do. Yes, a lot of people find it 'offensive' as they remember the holocaust and the terrible acts committed by the Nazi's in World War II, but it remains as a constant reminder to the future generations.

I agree that in some places it should be banned, such as on t-shirts and so forth, but it shouldn't be banned entirely.

Even if the Swastika symbol was used differently, you can take a fair bet that a person would probably relate it directly to the Nazi's now. Even when I see a Swastika symbol I think 'Nazi', regardless of what someone says about it to me. [/b]

[Kent]

Once again I feel that I've got to come forth and remind every one that the rights entitled to Americans in the first amendment include protection of those who want to sport the symbol on a shirt, on a car, where ever... its just how it works.

I also gotta say that I really hate the idea of people wearing this symbol around or showing it off in any way.
except for those that have it becuase they took it during their time in ww2.

[Yu Yu Hakusho!]

If people are starting to ban history and cover it up with lies to make it politically correct, THAT JUST REALLY PISSES ME OFF. They have NO RIGHT to change history or alter it so that it "won't hurt someone's feelings." What's done is done and no one can change it, or at least should, for that matter.

[Genkai]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Son Goten [/i]
[B][color=red][b]Some people think that the Swastika (symbol used by the Nazi's in WW2) should be banned.
.[/b][/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

HOW would you ban a swymbol again??

[QUOTE][i]originally posted by Sere Tuscumbia[i/]
[B]I believe that it is actually one of the Native American symbols FOR peace. And yes, the arm things point the different direction in the "peace 'swastika'".[/b]

well, apparently they bith are.

MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY chinese paintings and writings and stuff have the backwards swastika, a symbol of buddhism


even YYH ha it. there's a ninja in the genkai tournament that has it on his head. not in the show, but in the manga and possibly the japanese unedited show.

but yeah, the nativbe americans used it too, i think.

[Guest Matt]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by genkai_yyh [/i]
[B]HOW would you ban a swymbol again??[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red][b]
Law: If you are seen displaying this symbol in anyway you will be arrested and charged......with something. [/b][/color]:p

[Darkness]

I know the symbol means different things to different people, but you have to keep in mind what it means to most. The majority of the populus is going to think "nazi" as soon as they see it. Heck, I do.

I'm not saying ban it, I'd rather see you coming.

As for hanging it in the living room to remember the past; do what you feel. No one really has the right to tell you what to do within the confines of your own home (leaving out the extremes). But if you invited me into your grandfather's home and I saw the swastika displayed proudly on the wall, I hope that you would have the courtesy to give some kind of explaination to at least soothe my concerns. Remember that this sign once represented one of the most horrible crimes ever.

[Phantom]

[color=sienna]Forgetting, no, wether a symbol is banned or not, the concept of forgetting what has happened in our history is almost ludicrously out of the question.

Going all the way back to the initial post, led by Son Goten. He wanted to know our opinion on what we feel about the banning of the swastika. Personally, if not for history classes, in all honestly, I would DEFINATELY sport that symbol on a t-shirt. No this isnt a joke. The symbol is that of grand composure. It works, compells and is simple. Why else would hitler use it, sure you would have to consider the mentality of it all, but in the end, if not for history, the swastika would probably the main logo of a huge company.

Ok back to the relevent stuff...Banning is all according to the means of banning, the protocols to be issued. AS Mnenolth (sorry i dont remember exact spelling hehe) mentioned...banning, in the diluded context of banning is never absolutely pure. Rights and freedoms must be considered. And as a final consideration for You, Son Goten yourself, I would like to know what percentage (estimate) openly supported a full out bann of the Swastika? I would find it interesting to understand what compelled you to start this thread. If not for an outstanding volume of people regressing the freedom of this enigmatic symbol, I dont think you would have even contemplated starting this thread. Just a quick thought?[/color]

[James]

[color=royalblue]Well, no matter how you look at it...the swastika is most definitely a Nazi symbol.

I wouldn't ban it, simply because that would rule out a lot of historical documentaries and such.

And I wouldn't ban people from using it. If they choose to wear a Nazi symbol on their clothing, then that is the message they are choosing to send out to the world. It's the same as if someone wears a KKK symbol on their clothing.

It's the message and the impact that the individual chooses to promote and display. It doesn't mean I have to like it and support it -- and I have the right to be critical of that person, just as they have the right to further their own opinion.[/color]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OutlawDragon [/i]
[B]I honestly think that it should not be banned. It was a flag used by the Nazi's as with our American flag. Should people in Gemany or Vietnam ban our flag? Of course not. What about Japan? Should America ban the "Rising Sun"(I think that's what it called, the Japanese flag), they were apart or WW2. It just doesn't make sence at all to "ban" the Swastika. My 2 cents. Lataz

-OD [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, except you're talking about national flags. The swastika was the flag of the Nazi Party, rather than the actual German flag, and besides, I'm pretty certain that it's been banned (though not banned from textbooks etc., just banned from wearing it) in Germany itself..

Though I could be wrong on that..

[Phantom]

[color=sienna]No matter how studiously people look at a symbol..hmm. Ide love if james would have chose his words better..ok

no matter how you look at it, the swastika was used in a hatred originated symbol of hate via the nazi. That does not mean that the swastika didnt mena "hope", or "strength".. or "will"... who knows. it was merely the symbol for the army in which hitler led.

does that not mean that all islamic people (who dislike the united states) think that the Eagle of the united states represents hatred?

or that the union jack denoted on the uniforms of british combatants represented pure hatred towards the french during their constnat wars in the pre nineteen hundreds... ive said enough...[/color]