R-e-s-p-e-c-t

[Mnemolth]

Normally I would try to explain what I mean and where I'm coming from before I put an argument forward.

But, just for a change, I'm gonna let you do the work, rather than have me spoon feed you. ;)

Those who claim to respect everyone, in fact, respect no one.

NOTE: this thread is about respect, a rather large topic, so you can sidetrack a little but try to keep on topic.

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]Normally I would try to explain what I mean and where I'm coming from before I put an argument forward.

But, just for a change, I'm gonna let you do the work, rather than have me spoon feed you. ;)

Those who claim to respect everyone, in fact, respect no one.

NOTE: this thread is about respect, a rather large topic, so you can sidetrack a little but try to keep on topic. [/B][/QUOTE]

Right...

I personally think that that is a huge generalisation. Yes, I agree, a [i]lot[/i] of people are hypocrites, and generally tell people to show some respect whenever someone says they're in the wrong, and then they show little respect for anyone else.

However, I wouldn't say that everyone who says they respect everyone, actually respects no-one. It's kind of like saying "All people who claim to better at something than someone are just arrogant", and that's not true either.. A huge amount of people who say that kind of thing are arrogant, but a few aren't..

[Solo Tremaine]

I agree, Deus. To make such a huge generalisation is unfair. True, there are those who show respect only to themselves (and some who don't even show that) and are arrogant, but amongst them are the others who respect and admire other people. Usually, those people don't broadcast their respect directly- it's often in more subtle ways and less noticable. It's mostly the disrespect you hear about anyway, because that's what causes disagreements, arguements, and is a contributing factor to atrocities in war.

People who expressly say they are better than others are often arrogant and say it without actually stopping to think 'hang on, maybe I'm not so good', but there are some who genuinely are. But to be arrogant about it is no excuse. It shows lack of respect. The people who are are usually the ones who keep quiet and don't say anything because they know they're better than that. And they get respected for that, too.

[Guest cloricus]

I only respect a few people; it is very hard to get my respect. I find it annoying when people misuse what respect implies. This also goes for sorry; it annoys the hell out of me. (So if you do ever hear me say/type sorry I mean it, I don?t say it unless its needed so if you think I'm being an a**hole by not apologising; it's just because I don?t think it warrants it.)
Just to get off the topic, what do you think of my view about sorry remembering I?m talking about people who say sorry about every thing and say it with out thinking what they are saying/meaning.

-Lord Epssy

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Just to get off the topic, what do you think of my view about sorry remembering I?m talking about people who say sorry about every thing and say it with out thinking what they are saying/meaning.[/B][/QUOTE]

Depends what you mean.. sometimes I'll trip over someone by mistake, and just instinctively say 'sorry' without thinking about it. But on the other hand, I really [i]am[/i] sorry, since I didn't intend to do it, and if I did then it would warrant an apology.

I agree that it can be annoying when people say sorry even when they're not, but sometimes I say sorry instinctively, and I really am.. it depends on what you mean by 'thinking about what they're saying/meaning'

I only tend to apologise when I've genuinely made a mistake..

[Solo Tremaine]

I'll say sorry fairly regularly simply because I'm paranoid that I may have offended anyone. It's not to cover my back, it's to geniunely apologise for things I think I may have done. Admittedly, I do it too often and I'm too conscious about things I say, but you can never know when something can offend someone. Some people can take jokes, some people can't, and some people can take offence at the smallest things. But I always mean it whenever I say it.

[Charles]

Actually, I agree with Mnemolth. It's really quite fair to say that those who respect [I]everyone[/I], respect [I]no one[/I].

When judging others and measuring them up to our standards, we develop certain guidelines and expectations for people to live up to.

Now, if [I]everyone[/I] meets one's inherent expectations, then how can one know what respect is?

[B][quote]However, I wouldn't say that everyone who says they respect everyone, actually respects no-one. It's kind of like saying "All people who claim to better at something than someone are just arrogant", and that's not true either.. A huge amount of people who say that kind of thing are arrogant, but a few aren't..[/b][/quote]

That comparison is erroneous. You're comparing two entirely different circumstances. You're comparing an individual who respects [B]everyone[/B], to someone who believes that they're superior to [B]someone[/b] in an undefined aspect. Now, if someone believes that they're superior to everyone in a certain aspect, then it is more than fair to say that they're arrogant.

Respecting everyone is overlooking everything; it shows no clear expectations and an apparent lack of the ability to judge. I don't believe that anyone respects everyone, even if they say they do, because it would be a very shallow generalization, overlooking who "everyone" is completely.

[Solo Tremaine]

I see what you mean. I didn't understand it... I think. Um... That's a very good point, CWB. It's logical. I doubt anyone can actually respect everyone. No matter how much someone might say they do, there will be a point where they start to not respect people for what they do. Not everyone in the world is respectable anyway. But even if they did, they wouldn't necessarily be respecting no-one. Because even though there are no parameters for respect as such, respect is a feeling which can sometimes be applied to everyone, such as hate. You can hate everyone- that doesn't need 'measuring', as is the same with respect. But you're right-
[quote]
[b]it shows no clear expectations and an apparent lack of the ability to judge[/b][/quote]
I'm still confused, though.

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]Actually, I agree with Mnemolth. It's really quite fair to say that those who respect [I]everyone[/I], respect [I]no one[/I].

When judging others and measuring them up to our standards, we develop certain guidelines and expectations for people to live up to.

Now, if [I]everyone[/I] meets one's inherent expectations, then how can one know what respect is? [/b][/quote]

I think we're actually coming from completely different angles here. You're talking on kind of a more philosophical level, whereas I was talking about the way people actually behave. I was referring to the fact that many people go around demanding respect from everyone, claiming that they respect everyone, where in fact they don't. But even these people do sometimes respect someone, so from that perspective I think the statement isn't true.

In my opinion, it all depends which approach you go for: I think you are equally right, not because I believe that [i]all[/i] opinions are equally right, but because you're looking at it in a different way. Mnemolth hasn't said where he's coming from, so we don't really know in what context the original question was meant.

[quote][B]That comparison is erroneous. You're comparing two entirely different circumstances. You're comparing an individual who respects [B]everyone[/B], to someone who believes that they're superior to [B]someone[/b] in an undefined aspect. Now, if someone believes that they're superior to everyone in a certain aspect, then it is more than fair to say that they're arrogant.
[/B][/QUOTE]

When I said that, I was comparing someone who said he respects everyone to someone who says he's better than someone.. but I wasn't actually comparing the people, I was comparing the generalisations:

In Mnemolth's example "Those who claim to respect everyone, in fact, respect no one", it is clearly stated that if someone [b]claims[/b] to respect everyone (not 'does' respect everyone), then they respect [i]no-one[/i], rather than simply:

"Those who claim to respect everyone, in fact, don't"

Which I think would be perfectly agreeable, but to say that they don't respect anyone at all, I believe, is an unfair generalisation, in the same way that

"All people who claim to better at something than someone are just arrogant"

is unfair because a lot of people [i]are[/i] better than someone at something, regardless of who 'someone' and what 'something' are.

The comparison I was making wasn't between the people in the examples, but between the fact that the first example dismisses the idea that someone who says that may actually [i]respect someone[/i], and the second example dismisses anyone saying that from not being arrogant. In my opinion, the actual circumstances don't matter too much.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]I fail to see how someone that states "I respect everyone" truly respects no one. In some cases this may be true, but I think you are making a broad generalization. I'll give you brief example. A person could say that they "respect" everyone's posts on the boards. That statment doesn't necassarily mean that they agree with what they say, value thier opinion, or even believe that the poster has the right to exist. It could just mean that person respects everyone's post for different reasons...or at least respects the person for taking the time to post. Maybe that is not the greatet support for a point, but I am quite tired right now...prehaps later I'll have a better example.[/color]

[Kent]

I personally can see what you are saying about those who claim to respect everyone, no really doing so. But at the same time it is a bit of a generalization.

Although in support of your point I must say that I find it to be true very often. It's almost like those who have to come out and say such things on a regular basis are doing so because they feel the exact oppisite.

All of this stuff is in generalizations, so it's not always fair to say such things, but it's sorta like what my pych. professor was talking about.

He got into a short disscussion about how usually people who are lying are the ones that have to say things like "to tell the truth...". But I also have to come forth and contridict that because I end up saying that very thing and it's when I am telling to the truth.

I guess what Im getting at is that, generalizations are good when speaking about the group, but there are always individuals in that group and alot of the time those individuals don't fit into the generalization.

Plus, with all Ive said above, I would have to agree with heavens cloud.

I often times don't like the people posting or the things they say, but I do respect one thing about them and their post.

Their right to post.

[kagome]

"Those who claim to respect everyone, in fact, respect no one"
well, word is just word, if you really respect someone then you have to proved it through your action. You can claim that you respect someone, but the question is " do you really meant what you said or not"

[Mitch]

[color=red] Respect is kind of a...invisible thing which we place around someone. Whether it be to: Admire, understand, like, ect., respect is respect. Respect can be placed wrongly in some cases, such as is first impressions. But I really do believe in respect if it is deserved. Oh, and another thing, just because someone may respect someone, I don't think it goes so deep to translate into envy. Arrogant people, even if they don't admit it, would provide a nice epitome to envy.

Now, the whole question, "Can someone respect everyone" this is a rather broad and unexplained, blunt if you will, way of trying to convey a thought. Now, in my experience, respect should be given, even if antipathy is the only choice of reason. Thus, I do believe someone can respect everyone. Even if it might not be able to be called respect, it is in a watered sense, respect.[/color]

[Mnemolth]

Explanatory note:

Those who respect everyone, in fact, respect no one.

PS: I would still prefer my initial statement because it is not explicitly self-contradictory. I can see how the use of the word 'claim' may be a bit of a red herring. However, the form of the statement and the juxtaposition of 'everyone' and 'no one' should give an indication what was intended. Still, the off-shoot discussion is interesting in and of itself, though very limited in scope due to its very narrow nature. :D

[conpiracymonki]

[QUOTE]Posted by Mnemolth

[size=1][i]'Those who respect everyone, in fact, respect no one' -Mnemolth[/i]

[b]PS: I would still prefer my initial statement because it is not explicitly self-contradictory. I can see how the use of the word 'claim' may be a bit of a red herring. However, the form of the statement and the juxtaposition of 'everyone' and 'no one' should give an indication what was intended. Still, the off-shoot discussion is interesting in and of itself, though very limited in scope due to its very narrow nature.[/B][/size][/QUOTE]

[b][size=1]
Not trying to be an idiot or anything...But I have no idea what you meant when you said that just then...

Can you please uh...put that in layman terms, please?
:whoops: [/b][/size]

[GundamGohan]

uh.. one... wha's a juxtu-ya-wachamacolit???

and "To tell the Truth" I'm generally a vain and hypocritical *** who likes to know everything and flaunt it around...
Kay... well not ENTIRELY... (I do forget some things from time to time)... but I'm one of those people who finds it hard to respect people for no good reason, and if I think they're wrong... I'll tell them so until they can prove themselves right.
Another thing is that I joke around a lot... and I hate it when people get offended by a joke (admitedly it's hard to decipher my cryptic form of sarcasm in text form). Just dont get too offended by anything that I post, because my ideas are mine... im not out to change anyone's mind... just to help people make up their own by telling them my idea on it...

so... getting back to the Respect thing... yes... there are people whom I respect... but they have proven that they know who they are, and are happy with themselves first.

[James]

[color=royalblue]I think there are different kinds of respect.

I respect everyone on a basic human level...I mean, I respect them as a human being and I respect their right to speak freely etc...

But the other kind of respect is one that you earn. You earn it by your actions...and how you relate to people.

In that sense, there are quite a few people here who I have respect for. Some more than others. And there are some people that I have a very deep respect for.

So, I think there can be different kinds of respect. And it can be expressed in different ways.[/color]

[Mitch]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GundamGohan [/i]
[B]uh.. one... wha's a juxtu-ya-wachamacolit???

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=red] A Juxtaposition, if I remember correctly, is a word or object or even being that is side by side, parallel if you will.[/color]

[Red]

[b]I give everyone I meet a certain amount of respect, and then what they do afterwards determines how deep or shallow that respect becomes.

Some people I have the utmost respect for in their decisions and actions, but some other people I have little or no respect for due to their actions or things that they say.[/b]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]Explanatory note:

Those who respect everyone, in fact, respect no one.

PS: I would still prefer my initial statement because it is not explicitly self-contradictory. I can see how the use of the word 'claim' may be a bit of a red herring. However, the form of the statement and the juxtaposition of 'everyone' and 'no one' should give an indication what was intended. Still, the off-shoot discussion is interesting in and of itself, though very limited in scope due to its very narrow nature. :D [/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly.. the use, or lack of use, of the word 'claim' makes all the difference in how you interpret the statement. I think that's why my approach was so different to CWB's.

[Mnemolth]

Now that some of you have voiced your opinion on what you think of 'respect', I guess it is safe for me to say how I feel about the subject matter.

[b]AJ2 and Deus[/b]: I use my initial post because, as I said in my explanatory note, I didn't want to say something that explicitly made no sense. You can't say people who 'respects everyone' actually 'respects no one'. Well, you can, but then you'd just sound like some smart *** kid, playing with words. Cos what you mean by the first instance of 'respect' is obviously not what you mean in the second. You can't both respect and not respect at the same time, its a logical fallacy.

[b]On respect[/b]:

I agree mostly with what CWB said. But I would go further than he did. I raised this topic not just as a matter of having some debate on logic and definitions. I also wanted a discussion on respect itself, what it means to people, who they respect and why?

Of course I have my own views on the matter.

First, I think words are important, more important than many people would understand. They are immensely powerful. So when we use words like 'respect' we need to have an idea of what we mean. Because it is the misunderstanding of meanings that can get us into a lot of grief. We should also know that the meaning of words can change. 'Gay' was not always associated with homosexuality.

Nevertheless, we should be careful. Because I, for one, would not like to cheapen a word like 'respect'.

Second, I think people who demand respect often do not deserve it, especially those screaming at the top of their lungs for the prideful 'r-e-s-p-e-c-t' kinda respect. It is often said that respect is earned. And that is true enough. What many people don't realise, though, is that it is foolish to expect others to respect you when you don't respect yourself. Not only will external acceptance not come, but even if it arrived, you wouldn't notice it because you have nothing inside with which to recognise it.

It is the same with love. People go about their daily lives in silent hope of being rescued by their knight in shining armour or finding courage and purpose in the arms of their damsel in distress. Why should anyone love you when you don't love yourself? And yet...people secretly (or otherwise) believe in it [i]all[/i] the time. It is folly. It is a fever from which few will awaken.

Thirdly, some people have a tendency to believe that they 'respect' others, so others should afford them 'respect'. Well, if you give me monopoly money, am I suppose to change it and give you real money? If your respect is worthless then you've given me nothing.

At the end of the day, I would say this. Everyone is different, so I'm not going to say how many people you should or should not respect. That is dependent on your circumstance and your personality. But if you find yourself respecting no one, or respecting everyone, then something is seriously wrong and maybe its time you took another look at your life.

That's the end of the lecture. Make sure you read chapters 2 & 3 of the textbook for next week. Class dismissed. :D

[Mitch]

[color=red] I still am not siding with you Mnemloth. I've kind of compromised my opinion I guess, lol. I believe that someone can respect everyone, only that that respect for everyone is only a common curtesy which one has to endow upon others. Then there's a real kind of respect. A respect which you can feel just wanting to express throughout your entire body. A respect that makes you tingle with admiration and love for someone when you see them, or just hear them talk. Or anything about them.

I've felt a respect like that for my parents, and my grandparents. A respect as deep as that is scarce to come by, and is never overused. Not even in a lifetime.

Then there's mutual respect, but I don't believe in it. Respecting someone because they respect you is not what respect is. All it does is just make you falsify yourself and make you look ignorant.

Then there's the respect I have for some of the numerous members on these boards. A kind of respect that isn't based on looks at all. A respect that is based on someone's personality which they convey, an aura that I can sense, as I read someone's posts and various other writings. In essence, this is truly the root of respect. Personality, views, opinions. At least that is the way I see it in my mind. Because you don't respect someone for how good they look or how bad they are, you respect them for what they have made with their talents, abilities, personality. You see respect from inside them, not outside. But just reading someone's posts cannot convey all of these feelings, thus the respect towards memebers on this boards, at least to me, isn't an extremely strong respect, but it is pretty potent to say the least I can.[/color]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AnimeLover [/i]
[B][color=red] A Juxtaposition, if I remember correctly, is a word or object or even being that is side by side, parallel if you will.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=royalblue]Juxtaposition basically means that one thing is opposite or inverse to another.

Anyway, I think you're basically right on the whole respect thing. There are different kinds of respect...and it definitely varies from person to person.

I think most people have a "general" respect for people...a respect for humankind.

That is why most of us cannot understand terrorism. Because we have a general respect for all human life, no matter what nationality, etc...

[/color]

[Mnemolth]

Respect is not a courtesy. It has too much reverence. It cannot be a polite manner if it is something that has to be earned.

Common regard and tolerance is not respect. How is it possible for you to respect someone who you think is stupid? Or racist? Or any other negative you might like to add. You can respect his [i]right[/i] to express his opinions, but I find it hard to believe that you would actually respect the [i]person[/i]. Unless of course if they have other positive attributes that outweigh their flaws on the whole. But this is not always the case.

Do not mistake respect for common regard, civility and tolerance. It is not any of these things. We respect life because we have a reverence for it. So the taking of life is deeply troubling for us. But that is not to say we respect every living thing, human or otherwise. We may respect our religion or we may respect our system of laws but that is not the same thing as saying we respect the person.

We may have a deep abiding respect for our community, and this respect may influence our behaviour to others, including courtesy, civility and tolerance. However, it does not follow that we then [i]personally[/i] respect [i]each[/i] individual member of our community.

So what's the big deal anyway? Its just a word. Well, as I've mentioned before, words are very powerful things. And a word like respect is at the top of the list.

[Sara]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i]
[B]And a word like respect is at the top of the list. [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Where does 'nice' fall?

Eh. I'm wary of posting in your threads, I have this inane fear that what I say will come back to haunt me.

I don't claim to have respect for everyone. Or if I have, my feelings on the matter have greatly changed.

I'm willing to give most anything one a chance. From there, you can lose any semblence of respect I could ever have for you, float somewhere in the middle, or gradually work your way up on Cera's Elite Ladder of Status.

Suppose I can respect someone's intelligence and at the same time loathe another aspect of his/her personality. Do I respect this person or not?[/SIZE]